Michael B, Moore Fights MAGA in SC/Project 2025

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Challenging MAGA in South Carolina

[00:00:00] In 2020, Republican Representative Nancy Mace of South Carolina's 1st Congressional District edged out Democratic incumbent Representative Joe Cunningham, who'd been the first Democrat to flip a House seat in South Carolina in 30 years. Mace won by just 5, 400 votes, or 1%.

[00:00:22] Then, two years ago, after redistricting, Mace won re election by 14 percent. Mace was critical of Trump after the January 6, 2021 MAGA attack on the U. S. Capitol, but she's endorsed him now, despite his conviction for sexually abusing writer E. Jean Carroll 1990s, and on 34 felony counts in a Hush money scheme resulting from his fling with adult film star Stormy Daniels.

[00:00:56] Forward thinking business executive Michael B. Moore is the Democratic candidate running against Mace in November, and he's determined to return his district to the blue column and send Mace packing in a race that's similar to many across the country. Now we're pleased to have Michael Moore with us on the lean to the left podcast today.

[00:01:19] Hey, Michael, welcome. Thanks for showing up. 

[00:01:21] Thank you. I appreciate the invitation. Always great to be with you. 

[00:01:24] I know you're busy. You're really busy today with a bunch of stuff. You told me you got events going until nine tonight, so I won't waste any of your time. Tell us a little bit about your background, Michael, and why you're running for Congress.

[00:01:38] I'm a business guy. I'm not a politician. Although I've grown up with a deep reverence for the good that can happen by, rolling up your sleeves and trying to contribute to your community and helping your neighbors via elected office. My background I, Got an MBA from Duke University, got involved in consumer packaged goods marketing, worked at Kraft, worked at Coke and then worked in some smaller, more mid sized kinds of companies, basically traveling the country.

[00:02:07] I got back to Charleston in 2015 when former Charleston Mayor Joe Riley asked me to be the founding president and CEO of the International African American Museum. Just before that, I was CEO of a company called Glory Foods that was based at the time in Columbus, Ohio. We moved it to to South Carolina, to Effingham, right next to Florence and obviously brought jobs and opportunity here to, to South Carolina.

[00:02:33] Over the last, my, my career spans probably I hate to say it, probably 40 years over the last 25 or so I've had an opportunity to lead companies and organizations. But as I mentioned, I've grown up with this reverence. When I'm elected, I'll be the fourth in the last five generations of people in my family to serve in elected office.

[00:02:52] And and in fact, I'm running To serve in the same seat that my great grandfather, Robert Smalls, served in 150 years ago. So I have this balance that is a part of me. And that is, is a part of why I'm running. 

[00:03:07] That's amazing, Michael. So your great, what was it? Your great, two greats.

[00:03:15] 150 years ago served in Congress for South Carolina. Was he a Democrat? 

[00:03:20] No. He actually ironically enough, founded the Republican Party of South Carolina. I know all your listeners your viewers will remember that the Republican Party at the time was the progressive anti slavery party of Lincoln.

[00:03:34] And I, I guarantee you Robert Smalls would not recognize the Republican Party today. 

[00:03:39] Ah. Okay. So if you get elected what will your priorities be when you get to Congress? 

[00:03:46] Yeah, I think the first thing is we've gotta codify Roe v. Wade. We've gotta return just bodily autonomy and the power for women to make decisions about their own health care.

[00:03:58] We've gotta, we've gotta do that. I think that's the first thing. Broadly, I have spent a lot of time talking about the health care system and the kind of changes that we need there. We're the only major industrialized nation that seeks to maximize profit on injury and illness in the way that we do.

[00:04:16] And as a result medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country. There's 110 million Americans who are struggling with medical debt of various degrees. And we've got to do better. I support what President Biden did a few months back and putting a 35 a month cap on insulin prices.

[00:04:35] I think we've got to do better with that. I spend a lot of time just because of my business background, talking about the economy. We need to create a more inclusive economy over the last few years. The top 1 percent created twice as much wealth. As the rest of the 99 percent combined and again, I'm a business guy.

[00:04:55] I can appreciate the opportunity that comes from business, but that kind of it's just imbalance. And so we need to create a more inclusive economy where more people can better take advantage of their skills or hard work. I think here in the low country, we've got to get really serious about the environment.

[00:05:13] By 2100 eight plus million people are going to need to be relocated from both North and South Carolina, the coastlines because of sea level rise. We got to get really serious about that. Doesn't matter what party you are. Everybody needs clean air, clean water. The environment is something we've got to invest in.

[00:05:30] So a lot of issues, education gun safety. But those are at the core of, I think, my interests. 

[00:05:38] All right. In South Carolina, which is very red how does your position on abortion play out when you go to speak before groups, let's say before churches, church groups? 

[00:05:52] Yeah, I've been pleasantly surprised and it's consistent with what we hear nationally.

[00:05:57] This is a winning issue for Democrats. I think any time that women's reproductive freedom has been on the ballot since the Dobbs decision. It has prevailed. And I, there are, I think I last I saw there's about 115, 000 left leaning women in our district who are most, totally pissed off about the state of affairs of having, rights that they had over the last 50 years taken away from them.

[00:06:25] They are very activated, energized. And then quite frankly, even when I talk to independents and moderate Republicans, they're concerned. I've talked to older what one might guess would be perhaps a little more conservative women and they're concerned about their granddaughters and the like.

[00:06:44] So I think this is an issue that that's going to resonate across the board as it has across the country. 

[00:06:50] Mace's campaign rhetoric has been filled with a lot of inconsistencies and one of those inconsistencies, of course, is on abortion. She called a bill to block reimbursement of travel costs for military personnel seeking the procedure an Asshole move then she voted for it.

[00:07:10] What are your thoughts about that? 

[00:07:12] That feeds into this broader dynamic I've been asking the question for I don't know 15 16 months now, who is the real Nancy Mace? like you say is it the person who is You know, is it the person who critiques her party on on abortion issues? Or is it the one who co sponsored a six week abortion ban?

[00:07:31] Is it the one who critiques or who votes against infrastructure spending or the one who shows up to try to take credit for it? Is it the one who talks about IVF and says that we need to protect that. But the one who co sponsored a bill that would have outlawed it. So, I think there's so many issues where there are people in the first and frankly, I think around the country are really confused about Nancy and I believe have come to the conclusion that there really isn't much of a moral or even political compass there. It's all about Nancy. 

[00:08:05] Okay. So what are your thoughts about her supporting Trump after criticizing him for the insurrection and 

[00:08:13] I think she, frankly, really badly misread the political tea leaves of the district. I, she went after Trump and successfully got his endorsement. But when Nikki Haley actually beat Donald Trump in the first congressional district, of course, Trump won the state of South Carolina.

[00:08:32] But in this district, Nikki Haley won. I think that showed that the district is far more moderate, even in her party than she thought. So I think, again we're out not only trying to engage with Democrats, but also with independents and moderate Republicans. And we're getting lots of really nice traction and, I think a lot of those folks who are, who may be Nikki Haley Republicans, you might call them, I think they're giving us giving us a look and giving us support.

[00:08:59] Again, I'm a business guy. I've run companies and organizations. I served on, The Chamber of Commerce, the Board of the Chamber of Commerce. I, Charleston Business Magazine named me one of the 50 most influential people in the region. I've done a lot of the kind of moderate Republican business y kinds of things and I can speak their language. And so I welcome their support. 

[00:09:21] Okay. Now, sticking with abortion for just a second Trump is realizing, that opposing abortion is vastly unpopular among many voters, as you just said. He's now waffling about it and saying it's up to the states to decide what to do. And he opposes, he says now, a national abortion ban.

[00:09:45] What do you think about that? I guess it just tracks. The way Mace is. 

[00:09:50] Yeah, again I, it's the Republican Party, at least the MAGA wing of the Republican Party is turned into just a cult of personality around Donald Trump. And he can say and do pretty much Whatever he wants and people will be lockstep behind him.

[00:10:07] But but I don't believe that, obviously, that women's reproductive freedom should be a matter up to the states. I think it's a right that that was in place through the Roe v. Wade decision. And I think we need to Re codify those rights for sure as a national matter. 

[00:10:24] Okay, great. Now, I want to turn to Project 2025, the Republicans manifesto for the incoming administration, if there is a Republican incoming administration.

[00:10:39] It would vastly increase the President's power and it would disproportionately, the way I read it, affect people of color in many areas. Facing blowback, Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025, but really, it's his baby. It tracks the Republican platform that they just released.

[00:10:59] So what are your thoughts about Project 2025 generally and the impact on African Americans, people of color, and on your district, actually? 

[00:11:09] Yeah, I think Project 2025 is an extraordinarily dangerous Proposal, I think, with it combined, certainly with Donald Trump and all the things that he has said about being a dictator on day one and approaching his, going out, having retribution for Democrats and the like.

[00:11:28] I think and this is all complicated further by the Supreme Court essentially giving the president a free hand to do whatever he or she thinks that they should do with regard to their official duty. I think it's really dangerous. I think, I don't think it's hyperbole for us to acknowledge that American democracy is On the ballot in November.

[00:11:52] And and I think Democrats have to really get serious about this, and we've got to mobilize and we've got to get to the polls in ways that we never have, or else the next four years could be really catastrophic to our country. All kinds of communities that look, I think anyone who cares about democracy, who cares about our democratic institutions and look, we, my district, we've been, we had a gerrymandering 30, 000 voters were exiled from our district.

[00:12:19] And so we have experienced this these anti democratic kind of things. But and I think, I think to your question about the African American and voters of color, I think they will be disproportionately impacted by a lot of these measures. And and so I think it's extraordinarily dangerous.

[00:12:37] I think I don't think we're talking about it as much as we should.

[00:12:41] No, I think you're absolutely correct. I've seen in the last week or so a good bit of coverage of it. I think it's starting to emerge. People are beginning to realize what the hell the Republicans are up to. And I think it's very dangerous.

[00:12:54] I think you're absolutely correct. Did I call it Project 2025 or did I call it Project 25? Anyway, Project 2025, folks. Now, a small group of Democratic House members, and some in the media, are urging President Biden to step aside in favor of a younger candidate, largely because of concerns resulting from his debate performance with Donald Trump.

[00:13:21] Where do you stand on that? 

[00:13:24] Yeah, I think it's a very difficult situation. It's, I think went through a gut wrenching kind of a process. And frankly, I saw a poll that said, CNN poll that said that 75 percent of voters believe that Democrats have a better chance of winning with another candidate at the top of the ticket and regretfully. I think that's where I'm coming down. I think that it's a difficult position. I but here's where I differ from people from what i've heard. I think I don't think Democrats put their best foot forward with Biden, but I don't think we can win without Biden.

[00:14:01] I think we've gotta have him a part of the process. Almost, Nancy Pelosi's in sort of this speaker emeritus role, almost in that kind of an emeritus kind of a role bringing along his his coalition of core voters, but also I think tapping into the energy and excitement that I believe would be a part of of another ticket.

[00:14:24] Do you feel like there's time to come up with another candidate? 

[00:14:29] That's a difficult question, but unfortunately I reduced that down to, it's better for us to deal with this in 40 days than to deal with the next four years. Yeah. I think we've got to. We've got a convention coming up at that's the place where a nominee party is selected.

[00:14:45] I think it will be very difficult, particularly as this gets drawn out, if this gets drawn out, but but I think there's time. And look I think just this last point, I happen to believe, the reason why I think a lot of people have had Questions and concerns about the president's health.

[00:15:04] And I need to just to say, I love Joe Biden. I respect him. He has done an extraordinary job. And I think, he, Legislatively has put together, I think, perhaps the most impressive record, certainly since LBJ and some have suggested even since FDR, who knows, but he's, I love him and I offer this point of view, which in some circles is a very unpopular one.

[00:15:34] Just. Because I, I am regretful, but I just believe that while the conversation is if the conversation is focused on his health, I think Trump has an enormous advantage. We've got to shift the conversation from the president's health to Trump and his record and to project 2025 and to all the enormous Things that the enormously damaging things that they are proposing.

[00:16:01] Yeah, for sure. Okay on the, on that in that vein, are you concerned that if Biden stays as the as the nominee, that it would hurt your chances of defeating Mace? 

[00:16:16] I'm thinking about this much more on nat, on a national basis. I think you and I talked about just the danger of Trump, the danger of project 2025.

[00:16:24] That, that's where I'm focusing my energy. We've got as Democrats, we've got to pull out all the stops to win. And when I think about the calculus of all this, in 2016 right before the election, Hillary Clinton was favored by. Like all the polls, all the media outlets by that. She was going to win by greater than 90 percent probability.

[00:16:47] And we know that she lost in 2020. There wasn't a day that Joe Biden wasn't ahead in the polls and he. That was a very close race. Donald Trump has been ahead every day of this race. And again, with the stakes as they are with fascism as our, at our back door, I just, I'm deeply concerned and think that bringing someone else in to energize the party, to energize the base with president Biden and bringing along his coalition. I think that's the best way that Democrats can prevail in November. 

[00:17:21] What do you think the Democrats should just flip the ticket? 

[00:17:24] Look I have a lot of faith in the vice president. I think she would run circles around Donald Trump in a debate, a former prosecutor, former attorney general.

[00:17:34] I think there are a number of Democrats who would exceedingly well in a debate, but also who would beat Donald Trump. So I think we've got a deeper bench than maybe people are acknowledging, whether it's the vice president who I have a lot of faith in, or whether it's, some governors, senators, Democrats.

[00:17:51] And here's the other thing, the point at least when I'm out talking to people, and again, I've got to try to pull together a broad coalition of Democrats, independents, moderate Republicans, the agenda, the issues that Democrats are talking about, whether it's women's reproductive freedom or the economy or, education or the environment, like these are all issues That the vast majority of Americans care about, but now it's that agenda is getting lost by this focus on the president's health and potential, questions about that.

[00:18:21] I think we need to be able to focus on what Democrats are proposing and and get the attention away from, President Biden. 

[00:18:30] was absolutely shocked that Biden during the debate with Trump failed to point out that Trump recently told a group of oil industry executives that if they donated a billion dollars to his campaign, he would rescind Biden's regulations designed to protect the environment and fight global warming, regulations that cost the oil industry money.

[00:18:58] What are your thoughts about that? 

[00:18:59] I think the questions about the president's performance at the debate are out there and well established. I, 

[00:19:06] that isn't, that really is not my question. My really, my, really, my question was about the attempt to get the oil industry.

[00:19:15] Yeah, no, I think that's the Trump way, right? Those are his buddies. And I've got, I've got huge problems with the oil industry. I've got a proposal where I want to take Americans give the oil industry 20 billion a year in oil subsidies, basically at a time when they are earning among the highest profits in the history of capitalism.

[00:19:37] I'm not being hyperbolic there. They don't want that money. And we're giving it to them. It's going straight to their bottom line. I want to take that 20 billion dollars And I want to repurpose it in ways that invest in small and mid sized businesses and provide capital for entrepreneurs to start companies To hire people just to use that money in more productive ways.

[00:19:55] i'm already you know I believe that there's some changes that we need with the oil and gas industry and I think to Have a quid quo pro Where basically hey you? You know, give me billions of dollars and I'll do this for you. I think that's unconscionable. 

[00:20:11] Yeah, it is unconscionable, but it's like you say, it's the Trump way.

[00:20:17] So there we go. All so tell me about What you think about Trump's efforts to kill the Affordable Care Act. That's part of Project 2025. That would benefit, that benefits the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare benefits hundreds of thousands, if not more, South Carolinians. How would you address the challenges of healthcare accessibility and affordability?

[00:20:42] The first thing I would do, and it's not in my purview as a congressman, but I would use the bully pulpit to try to pressure the state of South Carolina to opt in to Medicaid expansion. I think that is one of the most egregious examples of politics over people. And I see the world very differently.

[00:21:02] It's always people over partisanship, people over politics. Look. I saw a projection. There are tens of thousands of South Carolinians who are dead now because of not having access to health care. We know that there are rural hospitals that have had to close if Mississippi, which originally opted out.

[00:21:23] They recently opted in. If Mississippi cannot can, see the error of their ways and get back in, we've got to do this. This is South Carolina dollars that are now being spent elsewhere because we're just choosing not to take advantage of it. So I think that's the first way. But then I think we just have to think about health care differently.

[00:21:41] I believe we need to move toward a world, a country where everybody is covered. I think there's a number of different, ways to do it, but I think we need to get to the thing that I'm, curious about this country is very, as very polarized.

[00:21:57] We don't agree on many things, but the vast majority of Americans love Medicare. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Over, 85, 90 percent of Americans. So that starts at 60, 65, excuse me. What is it about 64 or 63 or 62 or 52 or 42? What is it at 65 that makes Medicare such a, a beautiful thing.

[00:22:19] But before that, all of a sudden it's. It's socialism or whatever. So I think we need to look at those kinds of issues. Everybody needs to be covered. And look, I hear from a lot of young people who are struggling with costs generally, but in particular with health care costs. It's almost like they say that Healthcare costs, health insurance costs are like another mortgage and preventing them from going out and house and, getting started with their family.

[00:22:47] So we've got to look carefully at this, I believe. 

[00:22:50] Okay. So is your idea to come up with Medicare for all for everybody?

[00:22:57] I 

[00:22:57] didn't say that, but that sounds pretty darn good to me. No, I think everybody needs to be covered. I'm not sure there may be some, I've talked to some people and there may be some complications on how you get there, but I think ultimately that's where we need to go.

[00:23:14] The thing is that everybody says. Let, let's expand Medicare. But what a lot of people forget about is that Medicare only covers 80 percent and if you want, complete coverage, you've got to buy a supplemental, which, I happen to do. And that supplemental costs me just for me, an extra couple of hundred bucks a month.

[00:23:34] And then it costs me another couple of hundred bucks a month for my wife. And that's on top of what I pay for Medicare. So it's not a free ride by any stretch of the imagination. 

[00:23:44] No, and everyone always talks about, oh, how are we going to pay for it I've seen all kinds of studies under a universal health care, like a Medicare for all program.

[00:23:54] Overall health care costs would go down. We are paying dramatically more in health care costs and in many instances. Getting less, good care getting worse care for paying, for higher amounts. And a lot of that is, insurance companies and them taking their cut. Someone told me not long ago that it's not a coincidence.

[00:24:15] You go to New York city, the tallest buildings that you see are insurance companies that maybe that's metaphorical, but I think that the idea is, those insurance companies, yes, they've got a job to do, but there's also enormous, waste, frankly certainly from a sort of voter standpoint that, that is in play because of insurance companies.

[00:24:37] Yeah. And also there's a threat to social security too, because the Republicans keep talking about that. Now, it's true that some solution has to be found because in a couple of years, I'm not sure. Whether it's three or four, or what it is, but there's gonna be a, if nothing happens, there will be a automatic reduction in benefits that was passed by Congress some time ago, right?

[00:25:02] Yeah I'm actually intrigued with a proposal that's out there called Social Security 2100. It's a proposal to increase First of all, to increase the amount, I think the amount that people get taxed on now is about 168, 000, which covers, the vast majority, 90 plus percent of all Americans.

[00:25:22] But there are people who are making millions and millions who are only getting taxed on a fraction of their total income. If you're making up to 168, 000, Then 100 percent of your income is being, is going, is being taxed toward FICA. But but if you're making, millions of dollars, so that would be a way to, to help shore up things.

[00:25:43] It, the proposal also, it seeks to limit, to cut taxes on social security benefits. It also puts a a floor on social security benefits at, I think it's 125 or 150 percent of. Of the poverty level. So I, I think there's something to that. I heard about that from Congressman Clyburn who spoke about its benefits.

[00:26:06] And I think there's something to that. 

[00:26:08] Good. Okay. All right. I just have one other thing that I wanted to ask you about, and that's immigration. Biden's been blasted by Trump and the Republicans, yet they blocked a reform bill that would have helped to ease that problem. And they did it just because Trump said no, I want this to be an issue to go after the Democrats on.

[00:26:27] Now Trump just the other day was quoted as saying that he would like to see migrants fight for sport, like the gladiators. What do you think about that and about the overall immigration issue? 

[00:26:41] Because this is a family show, I'm going to try to clean this up, but I, I think framing other human beings, frankly, who are simply trying to, take care of themselves and put food on the table and escape, violence and tyranny and the like And frankly, look, I think there's so much dishonesty on this issue.

[00:27:02] There are huge portions of folks from the South who are effectively being lured here by businesses who take advantage of them for their labor. They don't pay them the minimum wage. They don't have the various controls and benefits that that are privy to American workers. And so I just, but I think, I just, I'm at a loss for how to express how deeply offensive and immoral Trump's metaphor or not even metaphor.

[00:27:38] He said it. 

[00:27:38] It was just disgusting. It's just really disgusting and it's just the way he is. 

[00:27:44] But I think there's opportunity in this issue for Democrats, because again, to your point. Yeah. They like to talk about this a lot, but when they had an opportunity to create the greatest impact on this issue, maybe ever they backed off because of Trump.

[00:27:59] This is going to be an area that we go after Nancy Mason to be sure. 

[00:28:03] Okay. So if you put into a nutshell just how crucial this election is, including the drive to return the House to democratic control, what would you say? 

[00:28:15] I would say that it seems like every year people throw out the phrase, oh, the most consequential election of my lifetime.

[00:28:25] I hear that all the time. And frankly, that it can be true because I think each year things ramp up in terms of their intensity and their impact. I cannot imagine an election that is more consequential than this one in November. Again,, fascism is on our back door, banging on the door, Project 2025 lays it out for us.

[00:28:49] I heard the guy from the Heritage Foundation basically say, hey, we're going to have a revolution, and it'll be bloodless if Democrats allow it to be, which is a not so veiled threat. That's a threat. Yeah. So I think I think it's extraordinarily dangerous, all that's being proposed.

[00:29:10] And frankly, I think a lot of people in this country are exceptionally nervous about November and that's what I think raises these questions about about our president. We've got Democrats have to prevail. And we've got to protect the house and hopefully hold on to the Senate.

[00:29:27] And I, as I said, I cannot imagine a more consequential election than this one. And look, I'm not prone to hyperbole, to just throw it out there, I really believe this is extraordinarily dire. 

[00:29:43] Okay, let's turn to your election for the last part of this, and that is, what would you say, what's your elevator speech to voters?

[00:29:54] Look, I'm I'm someone whose family has been here in the low country since the early to mid 17 nineties. I've had family here ever since. I am running to be the fourth in the last five generations of people in my family to serve this way. I'm a dad, I'm a grandfather. I care deeply about the world that my Children and their generation are coming into.

[00:30:15] And I am leaning on inspired by the legacy of those who served before me to jump in just to try to make a difference. I'm not a politician and and I don't apologize for that, but but I do care deeply and I am focused on getting results and making sure that there's someone in Washington who wakes up thinking about the low country, who goes to bed thinking about the low country, and who has You're back in D. C., and so that's why we're running. We're focusing on kitchen table issues that really matter to folks. I'm rejecting all this hyper partisan divisiveness that, that is frankly designed to just distract and divide, to divide people. I want to get things done, and whether it's about women's reproductive freedom, ensuring that women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies Whether it's thinking about healthcare system more broadly and trying to create more fairness and equity in that thinking about the economy, ensuring that we've got more equitable an inclusive economy, whether it's education, 90 percent of our children go to public schools, but yet there's all these schemes to skim money off the top to go to charter schools. And then we've got these other organizations that are trying to politically influence what's being taught and et cetera.

[00:31:30] The environment, they don't call us the low country for no reason. We've got serious. So there are real serious issues. That need to be worked on, and and we are focused on on doing our best to get our message out, and and we're excited by the traction that we're gaining.

[00:31:49] All right. Listen,