How Racism & Politics Affect Education in the U.S.

Show Transcript

Eugene Williams: Race, Politics & Education in the U.S.

[00:00:00] Hey guys, welcome to the Lean to the Left podcast, where we focus on the important social issues of our time with just a little Lean to the Left. Now, today our focus is education, racism, and politics. And our guest is educator and author Eugene Williams Jr., a writer, speaker, educator, and former child actor.

[00:00:21] Now, Eugene received a B. A. in English from Emory University in 1991 and a Masters in Educational Leadership from the University of Mary Washington in 2007. He's authored six books, including It's a Reading Thing, Help Your Child Understand, The Raisin in Milk Syndrome, Reflections of Confused Middle Class Black Youth, and Grounded in the Word, an SAT verbal prep. 

[00:00:50] Eugene has been a teacher in Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia, and currently is principal of Cumberland High School in Virginia. Eugene lives in Central Virginia with his wife, Jewel, a former elementary school principal, and his daughter, Paige, a graduate school student at Georgetown university.

[00:01:10] Eugene, thanks so much for joining us on the Lean to the Left podcast. I really do appreciate it.

[00:01:14] Thank you for having me. The appreciation is all mine. Now, let me make one slight correction. All right. I am a retired principal as of right now. 

[00:01:22] Oh, retired. Okay. Yes. 

[00:01:24] My last year of principalship was June, 2023.

[00:01:28] Okay. 

[00:01:29] Okay. So I am enjoying the transition period between being in the building and being out of the building and sharing my knowledge and expertise with folks around. Okay. Whoever will listen about what's going on in education today. 

[00:01:41] Okay. So kids, if you're a student at Columbia High School in Virginia and you get called to the principal's office. It won't be this guy that you're going to talk 

[00:01:53] to. No, it won't be me anymore. 

[00:01:58] I remember getting called to the principal's office every once in a while. Yes. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about the state of public education today, Eugene, especially as it relates to people of color. 

[00:02:13] I think in some ways depending on where you, what you look at it it's not particularly good, but in other ways, it's the best it's ever been.

[00:02:21] It all depends on the perspective you're taking and where you are and what system you're in, what part of the country you're in. 

[00:02:26] Yeah. 

[00:02:27] Some of the things that you're dealing with. One of the things I'm very excited about is as I, Do my studies and look on social media and read the newspapers and check out what's going on.

[00:02:38] I see a growing number of African American students both male and female doing great things in many of our high schools being accepted to multiple Ivy League schools, getting great SAT scores and just doing some fantastic things, about the story about the two young ladies in, I believe, New Orleans who created a two more proofs for the Pythagorean theorem. 

[00:03:00] We have some great things going on in our schools with African American students. I think what we have to do is just continue that trend and to continue to push our schools to advance the cause of African American students and all minority students and to push our students to continue to be the best people they can be wherever this, wherever their situation happens to be.

[00:03:21] Your focus has been on public education your whole career, right? 

[00:03:25] Yes I started, it's been 27 years. 

[00:03:30] So I was originally an English teacher, a high school English teacher, and then that was for 10 years. And then went into building level public school administration for 17 years. And the last of those 17 years, I was a principal for five of those years.

[00:03:44] Okay. All right. Your view is that it's really important to support public education, right? Absolutely. From the federal government. 

[00:03:54] First of all, it's great to support, it's important to support public education because education is the great equalizer. We have seen history in history. We've seen examples of people who come from very daunting circumstances come from a rough neighborhoods rough social economic backgrounds, started off as poor people, but went in, worked hard, got their education and became leaders of industry, became politicians, became entrepreneurs.

[00:04:25] So we know that it can happen because it's happened time and time again in this country. And so when we talk about things like or talk about issues or actions that would either defund or minimize the importance of public education as an African American male, as African American male educator, as the son of two African American educators, I I get worried.

[00:04:47] Yeah. All right. That brings me to the question about the Republican efforts to fund private and religious schools with public money. What do you think about that? 

[00:04:56] I think private schools are called private schools for a reason. 

[00:05:00] Yeah. 

[00:05:02] It's really that simple. This is not a, to me, this is not a complicated issue, especially as a student.

[00:05:06] I see, I attended private schools. Okay. I was a student at the McDonough school in Baltimore, Maryland from grades two through seven. I was a student at the Ransom Everglades school in Miami, Florida from grades eight through 12. 

[00:05:21] Okay. 

[00:05:22] And so we know that there are a significant group of people out there that have access, that have the finances and the resources to get and choose the type of education they want for their particular students.

[00:05:33] And I, I understand that and they should be allowed to do but that money. should come from them. For students that, that that we want to work with, that don't have the same access and the same capability, the same financial wherewithal we need to keep public schools publicly funded.

[00:05:49] Yeah, for sure. Now, what about the determination by these MAGA folks to ban certain books and restrict what's taught regarding slavery and racism? 

[00:06:04] The thing that worries me the most about that whole issue is, That people confuse CRT because that's, that was, that's been a big issue as of late, people confuse CRT with actual history.

[00:06:20] And my thing is this, I had a parent once asked me are the schools in your area teaching CRT? And I would tell them, no, we're teaching actual history. Now, if actual history is too difficult to take or too harsh of a pill to swallow, I can't help you. But history is what history is.

[00:06:40] Slavery happened. Jim Crow happened. Redlining happened. So if we try to brush over those facts. And act as if that never happened, then we are doing our kids a disservice as citizens because we're not teaching them significant portions of American actual history. 

[00:07:03] Why do you think, I don't know if this is a fair question, I just wonder why they're doing this.

[00:07:09] I don't understand really. 

[00:07:10] I wish I had a good answer for you. I can tell you what I think some of the motivation might be. 

[00:07:15] Yeah, 

[00:07:16] I can only assume that some of the motivation might be we have people in this country who claim to love America. And there's nothing wrong with loving America.

[00:07:25] But what we also know is As family members, as fathers, as sons, as husbands, you love your loved ones, but you love them flaws in all 

[00:07:36] right. 

[00:07:36] You accept them for who they are. You know everything about them. And even when you know all the things about them, then you make that choice to love them. But you can't just sit there and say little Susie is wonderful all the time. She's always will behave when you know, she's not, when you have evidence of her messing up in school, when you have evidence of her not doing the right things and the same with our children, our wives, our sons. So the thing about it is I think some people confuse romanticism of the country with patriotism.

[00:08:08] And I say, no, it's knowing all the things that have happened, that have occurred. That our leaders over the years have been capable of, that they have done, things they have done, things they have not done, the things that have been fair, and things that have not been fair, and still saying it's not perfect, but it's one of the best places in the world to be.

[00:08:30] However, we're not going to lie about who we are and what we did. 

[00:08:35] Yeah. 

[00:08:36] And there were some things that America engaged in. If America's honest with herself, that we're counter to what America says they were about at the very beginning of the founding of this country. 

[00:08:46] Absolutely. Okay. Tell me about the achievement gap, Eugene, and how it affects certain students.

[00:08:54] What is that? The achievement gap has been discussed for many years, basically talking about the gap in performance between children of color and white children with regards to standardized tests, state standardized tests SAT, ACT, what have you. And so I always fought against that stereotype in terms of the achievement gap.

[00:09:16] And when I say that, this, Yes, I know an achievement gap exists, but we never do a deep enough dive sometimes as educators into data to figure out why things exist. 

[00:09:28] Okay. 

[00:09:29] For example, if I am in a predominantly white rural school system. So at in that school, you have 10 percent African American students. And 90 percent white students, 

[00:09:45] right? 

[00:09:45] Okay. So let's say you're in a class, you have a class, pick a class of 10 kids seven, seven of them are white and three of them are black. And let's say that only one black kid in the class failed the test. And only one white kid. In the class, fail the test in terms of sheer numbers of how many from each subgroup fail the test.

[00:10:14] It's the exact same. But in terms of percentages, it's different. All right, because if you only have three students in the class and one fails, that's 33 percent black students have a 66 percent pass rate. 

[00:10:26] Yeah. 

[00:10:26] As opposed to you have six or seven white students and one fails, then we're talking about a pass rate in the 70s or 80s.

[00:10:33] Right. 

[00:10:34] You see what I'm saying? 

[00:10:35] Yeah, I do. 

[00:10:36] So we gotta be very careful. Sometimes that achievement gap is not necessarily about an achievement gap as much as a smaller margin of error. That's allowed because the number of students of color you have in the class. Make very sure we delineate between the two.

[00:10:54] Now, overall, yes, there is an achievement gap, but the exciting thing about it is. It's closing. Okay. Over the last few years because that has been a, there's been a concerted effort in school systems throughout the nation to make sure that happens. 

[00:11:13] Why did it exist in the beginning, in the first place?

[00:11:16] Let's just, let's go back to the history. So 

[00:11:20] talk to me. 

[00:11:21] We talk about, we talk about centuries of headstart. 

[00:11:23] Yeah. 

[00:11:24] To quote a phrase, when are the original African Americans that were brought to this country, came here, there were certain things they weren't allowed to do.

[00:11:35] They were not, they weren't allowed to know how to read. They weren't allowed to get the same schooling as their white counterparts. The great Frederick Douglass is self taught. As it was Phyllis Wheatley. The great poet. This is the it's as American as apple pie, the achievement gap.

[00:11:49] We know why it happens. And so what we have done over the last few decades over the last American century, is to involve ourselves in finding methods and ways. To make sure we equalize the education in whether it's rural, whether it's suburban, whether it's urban. So we give all us, all our students a fighting chance to have success on these standardized tests.

[00:12:12] Okay. So what would be the implication of diverting public money from public schools to private schools when it comes to the achievement gap? 

[00:12:27] I think what would happen. And number one is. If we're diverting this money to the private schools there would still be a great number of students that would not have access to the information and the other accoutrements that come along with those types of educations. I just think that we invested as much money in public education, as we do in defense. As we do in other things, I would begin to later that really, I don't believe are as crucial to the American success as education can be, or as crucial to the to equalizing the opportunities of all all Americans as education can be.

[00:13:12] I think we'd be in better shape, but we. We spend money on a lot of the wrong things, and we want to continue to cut funding, right? We talk about a teacher shortage right now, and the crazy thing about it is, yes, There have been a number of teachers who have left, increased numbers of teachers who have left teaching over the past several years.

[00:13:33] There have been increased number of principals who have left teaching over the past several years. But in the midst of all those teachers leaving and they talk about teacher shortage, what you also fail to realize is if you do the research, there have been an increased number of teacher layoffs during the same time.

[00:13:51] And so we have to figure out why is that happening? If there's a teacher shortage, why are we laying off teachers? That's because what's beginning to happen is. A lot of students are disenrolling in public schools, and we have an increase of the enrollment in private schools, in homeschooling, in micro schools and folks who have opportunity access and money can afford to do that.

[00:14:18] And 

[00:14:19] those who don't have to continue to go to public schools. And one of the things that I do worry about is with that type of student life in public schools the only students who may be left in a very short time and many of our public schools are students who are working class and poor students and we as a nation, owe them, owe that to them, as I said, to look out for them and to fund those public schools to the best of our capabilities so that our kids have an equal shot with the students who go to private schools, with the kids who can afford different types of learning. 

[00:14:59] I don't really get it.

[00:15:01] Why is it just assumed that private schools are so much better than public schools anyway? 

[00:15:07] I think it's, I think it's, I think it's a perception in many ways. Yeah. As a person who went to private schools growing up, I can tell you, there are, there are discipline problems everywhere.

[00:15:17] And there are and there are kids doing inappropriate things in both systems. 

[00:15:21] Sure. I 

[00:15:21] think because of, as happens a lot of times because of money and access, some things are able to be covered up or excused or tossed aside. More so with one group than another. And also it's perception.

[00:15:34] There are a lot of people who don't want, unfortunately, their kids with a different type of group of kids or even social class.

[00:15:43] They want to separate their young people from any of the what they perceive are very careful. I say this negative or detracting forces from their learning.

[00:15:52] But what I maintain is the best way to make sure that we are a country that is fair that is decent and that cares about all its citizens is for us to at every opportunity. Interact with one another as often as we can in school is a great place for kids from all types of backgrounds, races beliefs, religions to interact with another and practice on working on being a culture in a society that can cooperate and thrive and overcome differences.

[00:16:22] So I, I just think that public schools are very important, but public schools will also have to be careful in terms of how they educate our young people in terms of the change of them have to make to catch up with technology and different advancements because we're moving into a different type of world.

[00:16:40] Now, we're no longer the world where we could just, where everybody's going to work at the factories anymore. Now we have to think about technology and think about and all kinds of different challenges. Now that they're going to help to make our kids competitive, not only in our country, but globally and throughout the world. And so it's very important. Public school is still very important. There may be some fundamental changes that need to be made to it to make it more viable and to make it more effective. That doesn't mean we should get rid of it. I think we do that at our own peril as a country.

[00:17:15] All right. Talk to me a little bit about why students of color should participate in advanced placement, dual enrollment, advanced and honors courses. 

[00:17:25] From a very practical standpoint, when kids are being reviewed or looked at for college acceptance, there's a variety of factors, you know that, but one of the factors is the rigor of the classes they've been taking.

[00:17:38] And so if we want a better representation, we know that there are there already movements afoot to try to pull back affirmative action. So if we want to continue to see students of color get opportunities in many of these institutions, we have to make sure that we expose them to type of classes and type of rigor that they will need in order to be viewed as people who can be accepted these colleges and universities.

[00:18:03] And it's not uncommon in many schools to have AP honors dual enrollment classes, and either a small number. Or no minority students in them at all. And so that then also detracts from students abilities to go to these different types of institutions that that have historically kept them out anyway.

[00:18:26] So we want, if we want to give, if we're about being fair and giving everybody equal opportunity and equal chance, And we have to provide that opportunities for them. And that's just one more, one more way to do that. The students who are of color, who have the ability, who have the creativity, who have the intellect to succeed in those high level classes should be afforded the opportunity to do it.

[00:18:48] Simple. Okay. All right, good. 

[00:18:51] Now, let's talk a little bit about politics. Why is it that A lot of black people seem to be fiscally liberal. They want to see increased spending on social programs, for example. But they're socially conservative. Why is that? 

[00:19:09] I think this is just me. I can't speak for all of black America.

[00:19:14] You can't. 

[00:19:15] No, I can't. 

[00:19:18] Okay. 

[00:19:18] But my experience as a black man in America over the course of my 55 years on this earth is. 

[00:19:26] God, you're getting old, man. 

[00:19:28] Hey, how about that? Mostly African Americans. I know. 

[00:19:32] Yeah. 

[00:19:33] We believe in family. We believe in family. Of course, all the rhetoric about welfare and fathers leaving the homes and all of that.

[00:19:43] And we could, that's a whole not discussion for another show. 

[00:19:45] Sure. 

[00:19:46] But we believe in family. Number one. We are, when it comes to our children, we believe in, in, in providing Structure for our Children, whether that be and I'm going by my experiences, I have people in my family who are who run the gamut in terms of socioeconomics.

[00:20:03] I know that we all have this a lot of similar beliefs in terms of family, children, raising children. And all of those things. And, of course, there are those social circumstances that we hear about all the time, but there are reasons for those and to get into blaming one party or the other for those reasons, I think is useless and fruitless because it's not a, it's not a party to necessarily to blame for that it's an entire system.

[00:20:32] It's an entire way from the founding of the country that we could talk about in the very beginnings, regardless of Republican or Democrat, that lend itself to this. What we see now in 2024 with families of color. And I just think that. Grew up in a time as African Americans, many of the older ones, especially where how also where how white people viewed you was important to you, not because you worshipped white people or not because you thought they were better than you, but because you knew that.

[00:21:08] In most of your neighborhoods, the people who are making the decisions, the people who have the power, the people who had the could decide where you lived and what you ate, what schools you went to didn't look like you. We want to make sure that we always put our best foot forward when they saw us when we dealt with them.

[00:21:25] I think that's why we are conservative in many ways. But in terms of fiscal, we have, we had to be fiscally liberal because we know that even though in terms of our lifestyles, we were more conservative. We knew that there were opportunities that were not given to us simply because the color of our skin and the government had intervened.

[00:21:45] And in those situations where we took it upon ourselves as black people to do it for ourselves and set up on our own two feet, a lot of times the neighboring white communities didn't like that. People always talk about how black people don't stick together and are not about family and are not trying to create productive citizens.

[00:22:06] We had a black wall street. We had Tulsa. We had Lake Lanier. We had Central Park. Those were all in New York City. Those were all thriving black neighborhoods years and decades ago. It thrived so much. That some of our white neighbors got a little threatened by that. And so in some cases, those neighborhoods were attacked, were bombed, were destroyed, were frozen out economically.

[00:22:37] So there are a lot of things that, that it's a, it's such a deep question and it's so much bigger than right and left. That's the biggest problem for me as an African American in, in 2024 we narrow everything down to right and left. It's so much bigger than that.

[00:22:57] You could argue that both the right and the left. Have some things to make up for when it comes to people of color in this country. Of 

[00:23:02] course, that's true. There's no doubt about that. Okay. Talk to me a little bit about our current political situation with Trump and Biden and Trump having just been convicted of what, 34 counts of fraud or whatever it was with that case.

[00:23:20] And And yet he's out there bragging that he's done more for African Americans than any president in history and he keeps trying to generate support among the African American community. What are your thoughts about all of that?

[00:23:36] I think sometimes we have to understand that Mr. Trump. Before he was a politician, he was a salesman.

[00:23:51] And so salesmen are often known for, and this is, and I want your listeners to understand. This is not about me being on a right side or a left side. 

[00:24:03] Yeah. 

[00:24:05] Because we can go into Mr. Biden as well. But right now, since you asked me about President Trump, I'm going to answer about President Trump.

[00:24:12] Okay. He was a salesman before he was a politician. That's number one. We also know that people sometimes in their efforts in that romanticism I talked about for an America that they believed once was don't know when somebody is urinating on them and telling them that it's raining. And Mr. Trump has a lot of supporters who are being urinated on, but being told this raining and they are willing to believe it.

[00:24:46] Oh my God. I know. 

[00:24:49] And a lot of the folks that have come to those rallies. And want to wear the red hat and want to get caught up in the, what I call the political Hulk a mania of Trumpism, you remember wrestling back in the day. None of, I want to tell them and not out of anger, out of hurt, but just one system to another, pull them aside and say, brother, white brother, white sister, you're not going to get invited to Mar-a-Lago.

[00:25:21] Yeah. Okay. When he's having these parties and when he's having when he's assigned to make these major deals he's not thinking about you. If you happen to make some money while he's president goody on you, but that's not his main goal for becoming president. His main goal for becoming president is to enrich himself. If in the course of enriching himself, y'all get some little dollars and ducats drained on you too. Hey, it's all good. Happy for you, but don't think he's about you. Now, by the same token, you asked about president Biden. 

[00:25:56] Yeah. 

[00:25:57] Talk about president Biden. Go ahead. President Biden. Is the same guy who, before he was selected to be vice president, went on Went in the national media and was effusive and congratulated President Obama about how articulate he was.

[00:26:22] He's so articulate. He's so personal. He's so this. There's a secret. That a lot of us educated black folks don't say, but whenever you, we are always, we always look with a side eye at those who are amazed at how articulate or well spoken we are. Hey, yeah, we go to college too. We get A's in school too.

[00:26:48] Why is it a shock to you? That we would be articulate and that we would be smart. In fact, history tells you that if anybody overcomes odds. It's African American people. There's a lot Frederick Douglass, Benjamin Banneker, who basically was the architect for Washington, D. C. 

[00:27:11] Right. 

[00:27:13] Dr Myron role was a neurosurgeon slash former football player.

[00:27:17] I'm going from the historical to the current. We could go time after time in a country that is constantly engaged in policies that make it difficult for people of color to succeed. We continue to do it, not because of the policies, but in spite of the policies. So why would you be surprised?

[00:27:35] Exactly. 

[00:27:36] That we're intelligent. Why would you be surprised that we can figure things out? Also, the Joe Biden of today is also the Joe Biden of the crime bill back in the 90s.

[00:27:47] Okay. 

[00:27:48] Which had an adverse effect on a lot of black communities. 

[00:27:51] Okay. 

[00:27:52] What I think people have to understand is what has, what it has always been for African Americans in this country, it is, and it's a cliche, but it has always been the lesser of two, quote unquote, evils in terms of Yeah, 

[00:28:04] okay. All right. I'd like to have your reaction to First of all, before I ask you that question, something you said a minute ago struck a chord with me. When I get out into the countryside, I live in South Carolina, Myrtle Beach, but when I get away from the tourist area and I go into the countryside, I see a lot of poverty.

[00:28:30] I see a lot of broken down trailers. Old rusty pickup trucks sitting out front. 

[00:28:38] Yes. 

[00:28:39] Gigantic Trump signs. I don't know. One guy in that I've seen his vehicle on the road several times. Big old black pickup truck. Big old, like usually he's got four or five American flags flying from a platform he built behind his, on the back of his truck.

[00:29:02] Yes. 

[00:29:02] And Let's Go Brandon signs plastered all over his truck, right? Okay. Now this guy, I've seen this guy. He's not a, he's not an African American. He's of course, he's a white MAGA guy. 

[00:29:15] But before you say that, don't you think, of course, he's a white MAGA guy. There are African Americans who have also, 

[00:29:23] bought that line.

[00:29:24] Tried to 

[00:29:24] drink the Trump Kool Aid. 

[00:29:25] Yeah, I understand. I understand. But my question is, I guess I wandered around a little bit with that, but the point is that these people who are poverty stricken and yet they're supporting this guy. 

[00:29:39] Yes. 

[00:29:40] To your point, they're not going to be invited to Mar a Lago.

[00:29:44] Not only are they not going to be invited to Mar a Lago, but he's trying to take away stuff that they rely on. Like Social Security, for example. 

[00:29:52] Yes. 

[00:29:53] I just don't understand any logic there at all. Whether it's from whites or blacks or whoever.

[00:30:02] It's a very illogical situation. Because I think sometimes Americans fall in love with the dream. We talk about the American dream, they fall in love with the American dream because sometimes the American reality is so disappointing. And so they think that somehow by osmosis, if I, maybe if I attach myself to this guy who claims to be this and claims to be that.

[00:30:43] Maybe good things will happen for me. And then again, remember when it comes to, and I'd be very careful about this. This is not a, this is not is this right, this person right here on the screen with you is not a black radical talking to you, but I think we have to also look at white Americans who are working class and poor and who have Grown up on the idea that everything great about America comes from white people, white minds, white intellects, anything that happened great as opposed in America, because people of color were just a coincidental, we worship at the altar of the founding fathers, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln.

[00:31:35] Now we forget though, that some of these same guys. that we revere were slaveholders in the midst of trying to create a country where all men were supposed to be created equal. There's a lot of contradictions there. 

[00:31:51] Yeah, there are. 

[00:31:53] We talk about the great president, Abraham Lincoln, who freed the slaves, but one could argue that he didn't free the slaves out of his type of altruism, a mere goodness of his heart.

[00:32:07] He, some would argue, he freed the slaves because that was the only way to save the Union. Cause, cause The union wasn't, some of those battles, they weren't winning. So they had to go ahead and get those that fighting force that, that, you know, and the best way to do that was to free some folks and have extra supplies and forces to help in that battle to save the entire union so the country wouldn't fall apart. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of Mix ups and twilight zone ish behavior and turn around in the way people think. And so I'll say I'll have to say a lot of those folks who are supporting Mr. Trump long for an America where the presidents were white people were in charge, there was a, there was, there, there was a, not necessarily a greatness, but there was differences. The preferred status that just came of being white. And they look around them, have grown up that way their entire life, and they see blacks and Hispanics and Asians who are surpassing them now and in their mind, either consciously or subconsciously, that's not the way America was ever supposed to be.

[00:33:11] And so here comes Trump talking all this good stuff that sounds good to the ear, bringing jobs back to America. And the same people that want to applaud Trump for bringing jobs up to America, don't think and don't realize those jobs aren't coming back to America because it is cheaper to farm them out because Americans want things like health care and insurance and days off, things that people should be allowed to get.

[00:33:43] The immigrants aren't asking for all that. So a lot of times. Folks on the Trump side are speaking out of both sides of their neck, saying these immigrants are taking our jobs, but are you willing to pick the strawberries? Are you willing to do the type of backbreaking work? No, I'm not saying that they should, but yeah.

[00:34:08] I just need for people to be more perspicacious. Just look at the entirety of the whole issue. And it's just a lot of it's if it sounds confusing is cause it's confusing behavior. 

[00:34:17] Yeah. Sounds confusing because it is confusing. Okay. I'm wondering what your reaction is to voters who buy Trump's claim that he's being unfairly prosecuted, persecuted in these court cases that he's found himself in.

[00:34:33] And so therefore they'll vote for him in November because of these convictions, this hush money convictions, for example. What do you, what's your thought about that?

[00:34:44] If it was just that, I might understand it. We're talking about 34 convictions, right? 34 

[00:34:56] Uhhuh. 

[00:34:57] 34. 

[00:34:59] Yeah. And that's only a third of the total convictions. That or the total. But, 

[00:35:05] but if, but if we just stopped right now, I need everybody to pay attention to the number. Yeah, 34. So now, hold on, regardless of and as a, as an African American, I know about historical inequities and justice.

[00:35:21] That's old. That's old news. But I know this too, for a very long time and still in many, in most states, I believe. If you are a felon, whether it's one felony or 2000 felonies, if you are a felon, can I get a job? If you are a felon, you can't vote. If you are a felon, there's a whole bunch of things you can't do if you're a felon.

[00:35:44] Regardless of how, whether the evidence was tainted or it was a bad prosecution, whatever. Once the gavel hits down and says guilty, no one cares about none of that. That's right. So it just seems to me it's very. convenient for folks to say he's being railroaded. Okay. So here's the thing then let's do this.

[00:36:10] If that's going to be our new O going forward, that every person who has a felony, That is now out on the street after serving their time let's wipe out all those laws in every single state. It keeps them from access to jobs. It keeps them access to different opportunities because we have a significant portion of the country that's willing to allow a 34 time felon to hold the highest office in the land.

[00:36:42] I promise you this. I guarantee you this, and whether people want to agree with me or not that's their issue. I, I know this for myself. I know for a fact that most black people tell you. If Barack Obama had two felonies, one and a half felonies, Suspicion of a felony, he wouldn't have smelled the White House.

[00:37:01] That's right. Exactly right. Okay. Now, Trump says he wants the president to have more control over federal spending, and that he should be able to scrub programs, even those programs passed by Congress. And, that would really change the balance of power in this country. What are your thoughts about that?

[00:37:25] I thought the Founding Fathers, Got rid of kings. . That's my response to that. So you're saying that Trump was, I thought the point of America was to have the people, the represent, the representatives of the people, make decisions on how things go. . See the thing, I think sometimes as an English teacher, I think Mr. Trump didn't study his root words. . 

[00:37:47] Okay. 

[00:37:47] President, the root of president is to preside. Okay. To preside over, not to rule over. Okay. Okay. To preside over in concert with Congress, in concert with the Senate, in concert with the Supreme Court. Checks and balances. Remember that, America? We remember that. So when we start talking about He should have power to scrub this and do that.

[00:38:15] No. I think that's a very bad idea. What surprises me is the number of people in this country who say, we want freedom. We want freedom. We don't want to be a socialist country. Where we're told what to do by the by, by the rulers. We want freedom. Yet you are willing to elect a guy that wants to do all the things that you say you're against.

[00:38:47] Yeah. They, he wants to take away your freedoms. 

[00:38:50] It's crazy behavior, man. It 

[00:38:53] is. I don't 

[00:38:54] know how else to explain it. And I, and it's not, and I'm not, I want your people, your listeners, to know those that are on the right, on the left. I am not criticizing, your intellect. I'm not criticizing your ability to think I'm just asking you to think like when you say these things and when he says these things.

[00:39:13] Really hear him, and really hear yourself. And I think if you do that, the decision maybe, even if you still do that, maybe Biden still won't be your cup of tea. But Trump definitely shouldn't be. 

[00:39:26] Yeah. Speaking of Biden, what do you think he needs to do to win the support of African American voters? Is there anything he can do at this stage of the game?

[00:39:35] You pointed out things that, that he was about. Many years ago a as a reason to be skeptical of the guy, I guess I could say that. But what about today? 

[00:39:47] I think he has to do a better job. I think he needs to be as aggressive in, in stating his achievements as his opponent is aggressive in stating his shortcomings.

[00:40:03] We have one particular candidate that hammers a message over and over again. Now, whether the message is true or right or even plausible is totally debatable, but that one candidate has that message over and over again. But I never see Mr. Biden or any of his highest level representatives saying, listen, let's put all the other stuff aside. Let's here's. Here's a list. Here's a PowerPoint. Here's what we did. 

[00:40:33] Yeah. 

[00:40:34] Here's what the earning is. Here's what the, here's what the, here's what we did with the healthcare.

[00:40:39] Here's what we did with this and point out all those achievements. But I think sometimes we have a, we have a, we used to have Republicans and Democrats that believed in dealing with things with class and modesty, both parties believed in that. Yes, but now one party is WWE and the other party is NPR and WWE has more viewers for a reason.

[00:41:08] The spectacle, the loudness, the craziness the the aggression, 

[00:41:13] right? 

[00:41:13] NPR has a small number of listeners for that same reason. Yeah, 

[00:41:19] that's 

[00:41:19] right. So sometimes you have to, sometimes you have to fight. Fire with fire. Now fight fire with fire, using facts and real numbers. Of course. There was a reason why when Biden did the state of a union address, people were so excited because he's, he was energetic and aggressive and funny and humorous and relatable and stated his position in a clear, concise way.

[00:41:48] And then juxtapose it, then said, I do this, they're doing that. If you want to have that type of life, go with them. If you want to have this type of existence, come with us, 

[00:41:59] right? 

[00:41:59] That's how it has to be stated, but more than all too often, it's not say that way. And one group is a, we do have to maintain civility.

[00:42:09] I totally understand that. I totally understand that. And part of me feels for the democratic party because really, which is crazy, but because. I think they're trying to make, to be the adults in the room not saying that Republicans are not, but those, if you notice those Republicans who are also trying to be adults in the room, they can't hold on to their seats.

[00:42:29] No, they can't. 

[00:42:33] The Republicans who are trying to be the adults in the room all end up either being primaried or having to retire and say, this isn't the, this isn't the, this isn't the body I came in here for. This isn't the Congress that I was raised on. I can't deal with this. I got to get up out of here.

[00:42:47] And they leave. 

[00:42:48] Exactly. 

[00:42:49] And if all the same people on one side leave. 

[00:42:53] Yeah. 

[00:42:54] It's a problem. 

[00:42:56] Yeah. Big time. 

[00:42:57] It's a problem. 

[00:43:00] Okay. You know what? It occurred to me that, Biden promised when he was running four years ago that he would do everything he could to ease the burden of college loans.

[00:43:16] On people who are still paying college loans. And he's tried I don't know, a half a dozen different ways to attack that. And he's been turned aside by the courts. And I've read that, that African American young people or people with college loans who happen to be African Americans, are upset that he hasn't done enough.

[00:43:38] To me, that's unfair, because he's tried, from what I've seen, he's tried, what, half a dozen different approaches, whether it's through executive order or whatever to deal with this and yet people aren't happy. Do you think that's fair? 

[00:43:55] It's because he, what we just talked about, he doesn't do a good enough job of revealing that.

[00:44:01] Yeah. I'm selling. I would love to have him come on TV and say listen group du jour, black Hispanic LGBTQ, whatever the subgroup is, what the group is. 

[00:44:08] Yeah. 

[00:44:09] Instead of having an A, B, C for you, here's all the things I tried to do for you, but was blocked by 

[00:44:16] them, 

[00:44:16] the loyal opposition.

[00:44:17] Yep. 

[00:44:17] So here's, so what happens is. They block, and it's block, and nothing gets done, and see, we, like I said, we as American citizens, we have, we, our minds are very bottom line and televisionized, if we don't see it, or we didn't have, if it's not happening right then and there, then you're not doing anything you say to us, but we didn't see it, so you're the, you're supposed to be the president, you're supposed to just knock that out and make that happen right away.

[00:44:42] You're like, no, once again, but none of us don't understand how our system, the president presides, the president has to, encourage and cajole and get folks to put up certain type of legislation. And then when they bring it to him, sign off. 

[00:44:58] You're right. 

[00:44:59] Everybody we live in a result oriented society.

[00:45:03] But we haven't done enough study and have enough knowledge to know what goes into creating said results. In many cases, it ends up that certain people get blamed for things that may or may not be their fault. 

[00:45:14] Okay. All right. We've talked a lot about a lot of stuff but we haven't talked about your books.

[00:45:20] So do you want to do that? 

[00:45:22] Sure. I'm author of several books. The first book I want to talk about is a book that my late father and I co wrote together called It's a reading, excuse me grounded in the word, excuse me, grounded in the word. It is a book where we take the 500, we took the 500 most commonly found S A T words and cross reference them with the vocabulary, the King James version of the Bible.

[00:45:43] So students can learn about the word of God and learn vocabulary all at the same time. Okay. That's cool. We have another book called it's a reading thing. Help your child understand. If you remember decades ago, there was a saying, it's a black thing. You wouldn't understand. As two black educators, my father and I decided, no, it's not just a black thing.

[00:46:00] It's a reading thing. Okay. The main thing for black, white, Brown yellow, whatever your color is, whatever your race, whatever your background is reading is one of the defining factors in terms of success. 

[00:46:12] Now, so we created that book to help parents. Especially parents without money and without access engage in activities that can help the children be prepared to read before they get into kindergarten.

[00:46:25] Okay. What's the name of the book? It's called, it's a reading thing, help your child understand. 

[00:46:29] Okay. 

[00:46:30] Now, I want to just go off of that for one second to talk about an issue that's very important because you, as an educator, you got me on a roll that mentioned that book. We talk about all the things we've talked about thus far, all the things we discussed thus far, go back to a lack of knowledge, go back to a lack of study, go back to a lack of reading.

[00:46:49] Because if you read, if you study, and you actually comprehend some of the things that are going on, less tempted to make the crazy decisions politically. Did you know, and this is a Google able fact, I didn't make this up, out of all Americans, okay, All Americans, 54 percent of all Americans read on the sixth grade level or below.

[00:47:18] Wow. That's amazing. 54%. Now you say it's amazing, but that's why USA today has a lot of colors and pictures and colors and big font. Not that amazing. That's why, a sports illustrator is written on the sixth grade level. So you have to understand that. And so when we're dealing from that basis, we have a considerable amount of people or a number of people who don't see the value of education, don't see the value in learning, don't see the value in learning or reading.

[00:47:50] And so when you don't, that goes back to the whole thing about the one group loves one person loves the poorly educated. You love the poorly educated because you can run game on. 

[00:47:59] Right. 

[00:48:01] And you can, once again, you can urinate on them and tell them it's raining, but they're not educated to know what that's what you're doing.

[00:48:08] Yeah. 

[00:48:09] So it's very I just, I veered off of that, the books for a second to say importance of every, as an educator, every school system, every superintendent, every principal makes sure that reading is a priority. Increasing reading levels. And people say that that's that should be the way it is.

[00:48:26] Normally we know that. Okay, but. Even though we all know that look at where we are reading as a country. Obviously something is falling short, even though we know it's a fact, everybody needs to be able to read. Okay. I'll move on to the rest of the books from here. I have a book called reflections of a confused middle class black youth.

[00:48:45] It's an anthology of original poems and short stories and social commentary that I wrote. Talking about my my, my life as a as a boy in Baltimore and Miami and adult in Atlanta and Virginia, and just growing from the ages of, let's say five to about 35 and just how my life has just changed and the paths that were taken and the paths that should have been taken and weren't.

[00:49:09] Things of that nature. And just believe in educating folks. I believe in making people understand what's going on around them. I believe in seeing things from all sides, when it comes to politics. I'm not in favor of Trump, but I know why people are 

[00:49:28] No, a lot of white people are just a lot.

[00:49:32] Just 

[00:49:33] no, I don't mean I, I don't mean I, I didn't mean why, I said why it not even a lot. 30%. I said, why? I said, why? I said I said, oh, I know why people are not white people are. I said, I know why people and many of them have to be white. Of course. Yes. Oh, okay. I know why people are so attracted to him.

[00:49:45] I get it. I get it. 

[00:49:47] Okay. 

[00:49:48] But I can't support it. I can't support it because I know too much. I've lived too long. My experiences didn't tell me that I'm being gaslit by this man. And so why would you lend your support to somebody who clearly is more interested in his own achievements than he is of yours. That's all I'm saying. 

[00:50:09] All right. Do you want to talk about any more of your books? No, 

[00:50:13] I, those are those are the three that are really moving along right now. 

[00:50:17] All right. That's great. And people can find them where on Amazon. 

[00:50:20] Amazon, Barnes noble. com. Just internet in general.

[00:50:26] What if people want to have a conversation with you? How can they do that? 

[00:50:31] I have a website, www. eugenewilliamsjr. com. I'm available to come to school systems, churches, organizations, communities events. I do public speaking. I talk about the educational workshops. I talk about ways we can increase the achievement of African American males on high school campuses and college campuses.

[00:50:53] I talk about the importance of education for all people, regardless of your socioeconomic status and how we can my goal overall in this, in the second half of my life in the second act is to try to put everybody in positions to win. Okay. And I especially I do want to pay special attention to students of color and minorities, but a rising tide list really does lift all boats.

[00:51:18] And here's what you also know about America history historically. When black people are doing well, America's doing great. When America catches a cold, black folks get a whole entire fever. So if, say if African Americans if Latinos, if Asians are succeeding and achieving in terms of entrepreneurship and business and academics, then by default.

[00:51:44] White folks will too. 

[00:51:47] Alright, very good. Listen, I really appreciate Eugene, you coming on with us on the Lean to the Left Podcast and I thank you. I really do appreciate it. It was, I thought it was an interesting conver great conversation and so I hope you guys check out his books and reach out to Eugene too if you want to.

[00:52:04] So thank you. Appreciate it. 

[00:52:07] Thank you, sir.