Roger Smith: Homeless Drug Addict to Corporate CEO

Show Transcript

Roger Smith: Homeless Drug Addict to Corporate CEO

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: Roger Smith is author of the new book, The Most Unlikely Leader an Unbelievable Journey from G E D to CEO. Once homeless and on the ropes, he rose to become CEO of American Income Life Insurance, National Income Life Insurance, and Liberty National Life Insurance Companies. His life journey is one that truly proves that no matter how low you are, you can always turn things around and achieve your goals if you really try. Smith was the recipient of the Yitzhak Rabin Legacy Award, the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award, Healthcare for All Champion Award, the Soul Stein Award, as well as numerous other awards and publications.. As CEO, he helped transform the way the life insurance industries operate and do business.

[00:01:00] Roger is the father of five adult children and resides in Florida with his wife, Demi and his two dogs, Penelope and Chrome. Roger, thanks for joining us on the Lean to the Left Podcast.

[00:01:15] roger_smith: It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Me on your show, Bob

[00:01:19] Bob Gatty: It's my pleasure. I like the names of your dogs.

[00:01:23] roger_smith: cool dogs too.

[00:01:27] Bob Gatty: Why? Why is a dog called Chrome?

[00:01:31] roger_smith: You know what, we just did a little family vote and we had like three or four names that were in there and that's where she came out. Usually you think Chrome's like a boy's name, but it's a girl's name. in this particular case.

[00:01:47] Bob Gatty: Okay. . All right. You know what, I've read that you've got a hell of a life story. You really do. And I, I was reading about you and I read that by the time you were a teenager, you had dropped outta school. You were living on the streets of Santa Monica addicted to drugs.

[00:02:06] What the hell happened, Roger?

[00:02:09] roger_smith: Yeah. It's a, it's an interesting thing because before I was 15, I was like a pretty good kid. I was the star of the junior high musical. I was in the chess club. was, the woodworking club. I didn't get straight A's, but I got B'S at C's

[00:02:28] And then the summer before my 15th birthday I think it was the The era was just starting I was 15 and it, turning 15 looking to rebel, looking for my tribe, and and I found it though, my slide. Was really quick. If you think about it once again 14, all this, good stuff happening. At 15. I'm a drug addict. I'm a high school dropout and homeless,

[00:02:59] Bob Gatty: Holy Mackerel you were what? What drugs were you doing, pal?

[00:03:03] roger_smith: At, by the time I was 15, I was doing heroin.

[00:03:06] We had a a friend that actually had gotten a job, in a hospital on the docks, and he was getting like vials of morphine and we started morphine and then, progressed to heroin and yeah, it was really a quick movement downhill.

[00:03:25] Bob Gatty: were you having trouble at home or something?

[00:03:28] roger_smith: It wasn't trouble at home, it was just that, my mom was at that point, a single head of household.

[00:03:34] Bob Gatty: Okay.

[00:03:34] roger_smith: I was just very independent and I was independent even when I was a little kid, you know

[00:03:39] But but I was pretty independent then. And then the point that she was trying to get control I was uncontrollable,

[00:03:47] Bob Gatty: Sure.

[00:03:48] roger_smith: Yea

[00:03:48] Bob Gatty: You had a friend that was shot right next to you, or you were running away from a failed robbery attempt. What the hell? What were you doing?

[00:03:56] roger_smith: In this particular case, my friend had taken like a trash can thrown it through the window of a pawn shop, wanting to grab a watch or something. It was late at night and and we started running He grabbed the watch, we started running and neither of us knew that anybody would be in the pawn shop, and the owner was.

[00:04:22] And he came out and he came out shooting And and my friend was shot and I kept running. And you would think you boy, that would be a bottom. That would be the time to bottom out..

[00:04:34] Bob Gatty: Yeah, you'd think.

[00:04:35] roger_smith: And and that didn't happen for another 20 years. I was a functioning addict over 20 years.

[00:04:42] Bob Gatty: What were you doing to earn a living during that period?

[00:04:46] roger_smith: that period, it was, look, I just, you do anything that you can, I was living on the streets, I'd find somebody to live with. I'm, putting brochures on doorknobs.

[00:04:56] Dealing little bit, you just you hustle to do whatever you can. And and that's the way that, you live on the streets.

[00:05:05] And then I was fortunate when I was 22 I was still alive, and I wasn't in jail and my stepfather. Started work at American Income Life and he said, Hey Roger, would you like to come in here? And, would you like this opportunity? At first I didn't want to take it cuz I, I didn't wanna embarrass him.

[00:05:29] And I had no confidence whatsoever. But at that point there wasn't like, there wasn't opportunity knocking in a lot of different places. Yeah,

[00:05:37] so 

[00:05:37] Bob Gatty: How was it that you tried to commit suicide by walking into the Pacific? When was that? What period was that?

[00:05:45] roger_smith: so by that point I'm 35

[00:05:49] Bob Gatty: Oh,

[00:05:50] roger_smith: and, I had everything I built, I was successful. But then I would self-destruct and I'd build it up again and I'd destroy it. I'd build it up again, and I would destroy it. And 

[00:06:02] Bob Gatty: You were still doing drugs 

[00:06:04] roger_smith: yeah, was still doing drugs by that point I was doing crack cocaine.

[00:06:10] I remember the turning point was I'm on all fours and I'm looking for a sliver of crack cocaine in the carpet. I'm looking for hours, not minutes, hours. finally I got up and I said, if this is what life is going to be I can't see my way out. I,

[00:06:28] I've got

[00:06:29] It was just so dismal and, I walk, I was living in this little bungalow in Malibu, and I remember walking down, into the ocean and I, all, I could say I was blessed.

[00:06:42] I didn't keep walking and the next day I went into rehab.

[00:06:48] Bob Gatty: So that was a turning point for you.

[00:06:50] roger_smith: yeah. Yeah, that was the point where I just said, I've got to, I can't keep doing this. I can't do this anymore. so if I don't want to keep doing this, then I've got to, I've gotta change.

[00:07:05] Bob Gatty: In your twenties you got that job at the life insurance company.

[00:07:09] And you ended up getting clean and you ended up running these big, huge companies. I'm sure it's a hell of a story, but give us the highlights. How did how did this all come about?

[00:07:21] roger_smith: So the one thing that you have to understand is that it takes a lot of energy to be a functioning addict. It takes, a lot of energy to be an addict. You spend a lot of your thought, a lot of your time trying to figure out how to get your drugs, what you're doing, how you're making your money to do

[00:07:38] it 

[00:07:38] Bob Gatty: Huh.

[00:07:39] roger_smith: once you're clean. It's the same energy, but now you're putting it into a positive way. Now you're moving it into a positive force, and now you've got something that not only can you build, but that you could sustain. So I think that Bob, I think I started off with the philosophy that, listen, if it was easy, everybody would have.

[00:08:04] And in my case, I knew that it wasn't gonna be easy. not. Listen, I'm sure that there are naturally born sales persons leaders, CEOs, I'm gonna tell you that none of it. Was naturally born for me. It was learned behavior. fact, when I started sales, they teach you in sales that when you get to the closing line that that you shut up and whoever speaks is the one that's gonna buy. And I remember, I would get so nervous the back of my neck would start to shake, and I literally thought that people thought that I was having a seizure. That's how scared and how nervous I was. But I also learned that if I could work really hard at this and then I started to get results and then I started to get confidence.

[00:08:56] That I could get really good, and I did, and I became the number one salesperson. And as a leader, it was the same thing. It wasn't natural for me. It was all learning, learning, learning.. As a CEO, there were many times like in a financial meeting where I felt like a fifth grader who didn't know how to read..

[00:09:18] It was like, okay, crap I'm gonna have to work way, harder than anybody else in the room in order to have the success that I wanna have. And so think in the end I was committed to I was committed to do and learn work as hard as I needed to do learn the behavior that I was gonna need to be able to learn to be successful

[00:09:43] Bob Gatty: back up just a little bit. How is it that you got clean to start with?

[00:09:49] roger_smith: Oh, I went, so that next day after almost walking to the ocean I went into a rehab.

[00:09:55] I searched out a rehab, and back then, it's not like today there's rehabs everywhere, , back then there wasn't a lot of rehab, so had to research it.. I ended up going into Northern California, found this rehab, and and when I got out of rehab, I did opposite of of everything that I had been doing. If I put my left shoe on first before I put my right shoe on first, if I brushed my teeth, my right hand, I was gonna brush my teeth, my left hand. I had many years of addictive habits that I really felt that I had to completely start from scratch.

[00:10:35] And if that meant Doing the opposite of everything I had been doing, cuz everything I had been doing kept leading me into addiction. Then I was gonna do the opposite of and I started creating those habits.

[00:10:48] Bob Gatty: That's amazing. So you stuck with it.

[00:10:51] roger_smith: Correct.

[00:10:52] Correct 

[00:10:53] Bob Gatty: Now you ended up being the CEO of these big companies. Did you go to school then and get educated?

[00:11:01] roger_smith: Know what I didn't. I didn't. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just saying that in my case I didn't go. Was me jumping into the fire in each situation and getting positive results.

[00:11:17] Bob Gatty: That's incredible. You said that you were, you would sit in a board meeting or a meeting you were leading a ceo, whether it was a board meeting and you would feel stupid.

[00:11:29] roger_smith: Yeah.

[00:11:31] Bob Gatty: you felt like a fake, right?

[00:11:33] roger_smith: Yes. . Yeah. did.

[00:11:36] Bob Gatty: Yeah. I've been there. I've been there ,okay. I've been there

[00:11:39] roger_smith: The good thing I was getting growth and I was getting results and profit and that everybody's happy, that doesn't mean that I'm not sitting there going, Oh, crap, man. I better think number one, I better have people around me that I really trust could do the job. number two, got a really work harder than anybody else to gain the knowledge that I needed to gain to be able to make the right decision. 

[00:12:05] Bob Gatty: That's incredible. It really is. That really is incredible. I know in my own case I didn't, I, I went to one, one year of college and and I ended up taking a, was supposed to be a part-time job at a newspaper in Pittsburgh, and it ended. Being my career, not that newspaper.

[00:12:24] I only worked there for a little while, but journalism ended up being my career and I never did go back to get my degree. Now, today, if I tried to go get a job, even with all the experience I have, the first thing they say is where's your degree?

[00:12:39] roger_smith: Yeah, But tell people that, I said, Listen, it's different. different from what I was doing. know

[00:12:46] it than

[00:12:46] what it is today. Whole story.

[00:12:49] Yeah 

[00:12:49] Bob Gatty: have to say to 'em you just look at the millions of words I've written that have been published, and that's my degree, Pal

[00:12:56] roger_smith: That's mine would be just look at all the mistakes I've made.

[00:13:01] Bob Gatty: There you go. . 

[00:13:01] roger_smith: Agree 

[00:13:04] Bob Gatty: Oh, what was inside you? You talked a little bit about that. It must have been a lot of determination, a lot of courage. But what was inside you, in your heart that made you shake all this bad stuff and just make a 100% about face? What was there?

[00:13:27] roger_smith: Yeah, you know what it I've asked myself that question often and I think that it was my survivorship instincts that, just kicked it. It was all right. I wanna survive and if I can survive,

[00:13:48] Bob Gatty: Yeah.

[00:13:48] roger_smith: I can move on

[00:13:49] and I can

[00:13:50] Move to the next step and to the next step.

[00:13:52] If I could just persevere, put one foot in front of the other foot in front of the other foot, and remember that, as I said, all along the way I'm gaining confidence because I'm getting results.

[00:14:06] And, that's key because it's a lot easier to move forward with confidence. And it's a lot harder without and so that results happen, that, that means a lot

[00:14:16] Bob Gatty: You can't have confidence if you don't have results. I don't think. If you keep screwing up, you're certainly not gonna have confidence going into it the next time 

[00:14:26] roger_smith: I dunno. I have met a lot of people who keep screwing up and they are very confident.

[00:14:32] I'm going

[00:14:33] What? What is behind that facade? 

[00:14:35] Bob Gatty: Oh, it's facade. That's what you just said. It seems like they are, but they can't be because Anyway , Oh, where did I wanna go with this thing? I wanted to ask you if you were to give young business execs some advice, people, kids that, young people who wanna make. big time into the executive suites, what would be the most important thing they should focus on?

[00:15:05] roger_smith: Okay, so I, I think there's two things. One is Look for multiple mentors. Not just one mentor, but, look for mentors who are willing to give you their wisdom and aggregate that wisdom. I was fortunate. I had my stepfather who brought me in, Man, he's gonna teach me about closing.

[00:15:26] He's gonna teach me about running an insurance agency. had the founder of the company who. Teaching me about patience and looking for the best in people who taught me that if you're gonna take out of the community, it's your responsibility to put back into the community. Talk to me about the, social injustice and those things that, that I never would've known.

[00:15:47] And then the founder of the holding company the CEO of the holding. Taught me three key lessons. They said, Nothing's as good as it seems, and nothing's as bad as it seems. And I thought, Man, that's if I had only known that earlier, because my life was just such, these highs, these lows, these highs, these lows.

[00:16:06] if I understood that when I'm on the hill, there's gonna be an obstacle, I'm gonna fall. And if I'm in the valley, this too shall pass. That was key. He taught me about. Responding not reacting to something know about if you're using, you can use positive emotion for motivation, but using when it's a negative situation.

[00:16:28] So that was key. As far as people being able to help me, what I think young business execs should focus on? I think they should focus on what the, what I believe are the four characteristics of a leader. I think they should focus on being visionary. That leaders visionary and they gotta see further than the people that they're leading, they have to have influence on the people that they're leading.

[00:16:57] They have to get results and the people have to be able to trust them in what they're doing. And they have to have strong systems. And most importantly, they gotta be willing to inspect those systems. Gotta make sure that what they think is working is actually.

[00:17:11] Bob Gatty: How do you get these young people? How do you get your team members to believe in you and to trust you?

[00:17:18] roger_smith: As I just said I, two key things. Number one is if I want you to follow me, if want you to trust me, I gotta get results.

[00:17:27] I

[00:17:27] you're, if I tell you, Hey, this is how it should be done, let me show you and I don't get it done. , you're not gonna follow me. the second part of that is the people that you're leading really need to know that you care about them.

[00:17:43] And I don't mean care about them because it makes you look good, really care about them, care about their family care, that they understand that you take the responsibility of their success very personal and that it's very important to you and if people really feel that you care about them and that you're gonna get results, then they're gonna follow you anywhere.

[00:18:08] Bob Gatty: what was it about the insurance business that you liked? I know that it was an opportunity for you to get off the street, but then you stuck with it and then you became a big time leader in the industry.. Big time. What was it about? What's it about that industry that you liked?

[00:18:26] roger_smith: I just I believed in everything that we were doing. I believed in, the product. I believe that the product we were selling, that there was a need for it. That, eventually somebody's gonna die. And the majority of our deal was life

[00:18:42] insurance

[00:18:42] That there was a need for it in, in, in the community that I work that and that gave me purpose as I moved up my belief in me being able to help other people, know, that didn't have maybe the highest education or, any of those things. It was, it really was me believing in, in what I was doing and my ability then to help other people to achieve results.

[00:19:10] Bob Gatty: Did you ever hire anybody who was you?

[00:19:15] roger_smith: Oh, that's so frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to kill him. I was that guy. I was that guy Bob that took one step forward to three steps back.

[00:19:29] I mean

[00:19:30] that was my deal, and I'd see today. They were just talented and they would just keep on getting in the way of themselves. And I, it was just like me.

[00:19:41] I was going, Oh my gosh, am I and you know what happened? Every time I saw that, I thought about, gosh, my stepfather, the founder of the company, the ceo, the whole, they must have had so much patience to be able to put up with me . I'm seeing it right now in somebody else..

[00:20:01] Bob Gatty: That's interesting. I saw this quote from your book, Trust isn't just about keeping your word trust is about your team believing that the vision you presented was going to be better for them and better for the company. But I guess maybe we ex, we talked about that a little bit, but explain exactly what you met there.

[00:20:21] roger_smith: I, and we did discuss it, but I do think it's important that you understand that. The decisions you make, they have to be win-win for all parties involved

[00:20:33] So my decisions made it so it, it was a win for the sales people. It was a win for the company. It was a win for the shareholders. And you know what?

[00:20:44] If any one of those entities wasn't going to win, then that's not a decision I was gonna make. Because somebody, some entity's losing out and then it's not gonna be the right decision.

[00:20:58] Bob Gatty: Yeah. Did you ever have a situation where you had lieutenants that you trusted maybe more than one, and there was this big decision to be made and you asked them for their advice, and one told you one thing and one told you the exact opposite.. Did you ever have that happen?

[00:21:18] roger_smith: Yeah.

[00:21:19] Bob Gatty: Okay. What'd you do? What'd you

[00:21:21] roger_smith: I trusted myself. I trusted that I have enough experience that I had enough knowledge that I had enough data that in the end, the decision I was gonna make was going to be the right decision. And And, you know what? More often than not Bob, it was the right decision. But also I understood you know what, If I made a wrong decision, not married to it. I can change the decision.

[00:21:49] Bob Gatty: Oh, There you go.

[00:21:50] roger_smith: Get new data, change the decision. You don't have to go out with a Titanic. You just need to get, make a new decision. I think people get so scared of making cuz they're scared of making a wrong one. And you know what? It's just in life, in business you're gonna make wrong decisions all the time.

[00:22:11] Just try to make a right one the next time.

[00:22:14] Bob Gatty: Okay, so you chose one guy's recommendation. That's what you thought you did. You felt that was the right one. You have this other guy who's disappointed. How did you handle that guy?

[00:22:24] roger_smith: Listen it's like you're on the tee. And you're not always gonna get what you want. that's just the way it is. You know what, this is just one of the times where you're not gonna get what you want, but sit back and watch the results. Just don't get in the way.

[00:22:41] Just get in the way.

[00:22:42] Bob Gatty: It's like the baseball picture that gets yanked , because he gave up three walks, , and the manager says, It's okay, buddy. Just go sit down. It'll be another day, everything will be fine.

[00:22:54] roger_smith: That's

[00:22:55] Bob Gatty: then the next day it gets cut.

[00:22:56] roger_smith: Try not to go that

[00:22:58] far but 

[00:22:58] Bob Gatty: Okay,

[00:23:00] roger_smith: can't, but you can't let them be a cancer 

[00:23:02] Bob Gatty: Alright, so I saw another quote from you on LinkedIn. Sometimes you have to burn your bridges to not give yourself the option of turning back. Only then can you truly succeed. I guess you did have some burn bridges you had to burn right.

[00:23:18] roger_smith: Yeah, so that, that's a one of my basic philosophies and what I'm really saying is this, that. In our lives, we're gonna hit obstacles that seem so insurmountable. If we have in the back of our mind plan B, we have an escape patch, if we have that thought process that says if this doesn't work, I'll do this. When we hit that, that obstacle, the temptation to just do plan B it's too great. I can't tell you how many people I've seen whose dreams that they never realize because they, they have this escape hatch. Instead of going, Listen, this is the path I'm moving forward. I'm gonna burn all this behind me.

[00:24:10] There's no, I'm not going backwards. Only going forward. you know what? It's amazing about human nature, how creative we get when we hit that obstacle and we know we're gonna get past it. It is amazing what we think of to get through the wall. Over the wall, around the wall. And you know what happens is years later we look back and go that was a bump in the road.

[00:24:37] Bob Gatty: Yeah,

[00:24:37] roger_smith: But, at that time it's like, Oh my gosh, how am I gonna do it? But to just keep on moving forward. Be committed. Be committed to your dream.

[00:24:46] Bob Gatty: Along that line you had another quote on LinkedIn. If you tell yourself you can't, you won't, You must be willing to leave your comfort zone and face uncertainty with confidence. It's the only way you will grow. I love that quote. And matter of fact, I have a t-shirt that I made myself. It says, Never quit.

[00:25:06] Not ever. And that's just how I feel. Yeah, because if you do you're done.. 

[00:25:13] roger_smith: absolutely 

[00:25:14] Bob Gatty: T-shirt. I made no such word as can't, and I believe that too. If you really set your mind do you agree?

[00:25:21] roger_smith: I absolutely agree. It's, I don't wanna confront it. I won't do that but no, there's no such thing as can't. You can overcome anything. And I, the first part of that question is, You we end up giving ourselves self-fulfilling prophecies. If we say, keep on telling ourselves we can't do this.

[00:25:42] We're not we don't have the knowledge, we don't we give ourselves all these excuses

[00:25:47] and

[00:25:48] And start all this by why something won't happen. Guess what? It won't happen. You are right. You're a genius. You're right. It won't happen because you've told it, you've spoken

[00:26:05] it 

[00:26:05] Bob Gatty: Yeah.

[00:26:06] roger_smith: you know.

[00:26:07] Bob Gatty: Yeah. Okay. Are you still in the insurance business?

[00:26:10] roger_smith: No, I I retired five years ago,

[00:26:14] Bob Gatty: Oh, okay. Didn't I read that you had an agency though?

[00:26:18] roger_smith: Nope,

[00:26:19] Bob Gatty: Oh, no. You didn't have an agency. Oh,

[00:26:22] roger_smith: nope. I retired five years ago then, I was building a house and then I'm gonna write a book, which I did joined a community theater I wanted to keep on getting outta my comfort zone.

[00:26:34] Bob Gatty: okay. 

[00:26:35] roger_smith: Yeah

[00:26:36] that's it.

[00:26:37] Bob Gatty: Now, what do you think of these Liberty Mutual ads that are on TV these days?

[00:26:41] roger_smith: I think they're great. I think they're, you I, the company I ran as a side note Bob , so the company I ran was Liberty National.

[00:26:49] No, I know, but I know. But listen, And every time a Liberty Mutual ad would go on, I would go. That's great. Because people dunno. We walk in, We're Liberty National.

[00:26:59] They're thinking of the ad, you

[00:27:00] know it's

[00:27:03] me it was like free advertising.

[00:27:04] Bob Gatty: Most people don't know I, like I didn't

[00:27:08] roger_smith: Exactly. All day

[00:27:10] long 

[00:27:12] Bob Gatty: I think some of 'em are pretty funny. Some are pretty stupid, but anyway. Oh. What's the bottom line message that you would like our listeners to take away from this conversation?

[00:27:24] roger_smith: I

[00:27:24] what I hope they would take away is, listen, no matter how stuck you are in your life, no matter how much you feel that the deck is stacked against you. It's okay. You can still achieve all these things you wanna achieve. All those things that you may be dreaming about in the back of your mind, but thinking, no, I can't be cause I'm here to tell you that you can achieve the success you want because you can achieve it.

[00:27:55] Listen, I can do if I can do it with the odds so much against me. Then imagine what you can do. So don't get stuck. Don't allow that to be like an excuse in your life. I said, even if the deck is stacked against you. So what? So what? Keep moving. Have a vision. Have a dream of where you wanna be, and then act on that dream.

[00:28:20] Take the risk.

[00:28:22] Bob Gatty: Okay. That's a great way to close this one up. I really appreciate it. But before we do, where can people find your book, Roger?

[00:28:30] roger_smith: So they can find The Most Unlikely Leader on Amazon. They can go to my website, which is roger smith.me. That's roger smith.me, and my bio's on there. They can order the book from the website and all my social media links are on there.

[00:28:49] Bob Gatty: Okay. Excellent. Thanks very much for being with us on Lean to the Left. I appreciate it, Roger.

[00:28:56] roger_smith: Thank you so much, Bob.,