Todd Sears-Dangers of Speaker Johnson

Show Transcript

Speaker Johnson & LGBTQ+ Concerns

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: The election of Representative Mike Johnson of Louisiana to be the new Speaker of the House places him in an enormously influential position in Congress and second in line for the presidency. How will he affect social policy in the United States? As the architect of last year's national don't say gay bill, leaders in the LGBTQ plus community are concerned about what could lie ahead.

[00:00:28] Stay tuned. 

[00:00:30] Todd Sears, the CEO and founder of OutLeadership, an organization that advocates for the LGBTQ plus community in business at all levels, is our guest today. He spent more than two decades working at the intersection of finance and equality. Todd began his career as an investment banker before joining Merrill Lynch as a financial advisor.

[00:00:57] There he created the first team of financial advisors in Wall Street focused on the LGBTQ plus community and brought nearly 2 billion of new assets to the firm from LGBTQ plus couples and nonprofit organizations. Today, Sears says the policies espoused by Speaker Johnson could wreak havoc on our country's economic and business climate.

[00:01:26] Hey, Todd, thanks for joining us today on the lean to the left podcast. I know you're traveling and in fact, you're in Sydney, Australia as we speak, right? 

[00:01:35] Todd Sears: That's right. And Bob, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. 

[00:01:37] Bob Gatty: What the hell are you doing there anyway?

[00:01:40] Todd Sears: Advocating for LGBT equality through the power of business.

[00:01:43] Just what you said. Our leadership has summits in New York, London, Hong Kong, and Sydney every year. And I'm in Sydney, Australia for our eighth annual Sydney summit that was just hosted last night by the CEO of macquarie Bank. 

[00:01:57] Bob Gatty: Oh, cool. Tell us a little bit more about yourself, Todd. I read somewhere that when you were five... You asked your mom what being gay was all about. What happened after that? 

[00:02:09] Todd Sears: Luckily, she said being gay is when two men love each other. And if you are, that's okay. So that was a pretty cool start for a mom. And she told you that she did pretty amazing, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm very lucky in that way.

[00:02:25] Most, I don't want to say most, but probably most LGBT people do not have amazingly supportive parents right off the bat. Sometimes it takes people a little bit of time, but I'm lucky to be one of them. 

[00:02:37] Bob Gatty: I have to confess that when my son announced that he's gay, which he did when he was about 17, took me a little while.

[00:02:47] That's okay. 

[00:02:48] That's okay, 

[00:02:50] because he decided that right off the bat, he was going to he was going to get in some drag shows in Baltimore and I was a little put off by that. I have to tell you. But anyway, we're all good today.

[00:03:03] Todd Sears: Good. I'm glad. I'd like to say that it takes people and if it took him 17 years, it actually took me 18 years to fully come out.

[00:03:08] I knew when I was five, but it took me to 18 to actually admit it to myself. I always like to say if it took me till 18, giving my parents a couple of years to figure it out. It's probably okay. 

[00:03:18] Bob Gatty: Okay. So what does outleadership do? What's your charge as an organization, Todd? 

[00:03:25] Todd Sears: Basically, quite simply taking the power that business has around the world to advocate for LGBTQ equality and rights.

[00:03:33] We've long known that inclusion drives business, diversity and inclusion broadly drives business, but LGBT people are great workers. We have high levels of empathy. We're great leaders. And we've basically been able to draw that line between our equality and bottom line business results. And so we've been lucky enough to have over 94 companies be members about leadership.

[00:03:55] We are a membership organization and the summits that I mentioned convene. These leaders are CEO hosted senior business leader attended. We've had over 30, 000 business leaders globally engaged in our summits, 1200 CEOs and the idea of getting these leaders together. quite frankly, is to have them understand what they can do with their economic platform to say that LGBT people shouldn't be illegal, whether it's in North Carolina with HB2 or Singapore, which just decriminalized homosexuality just last August.

[00:04:23] And so what we've been able to really create is this global movement of business to say that this is an important aspect of their business opportunity. 

[00:04:32] Bob Gatty: That's incredible. You started this organization, right? 

[00:04:36] Todd Sears: I did with a severance check from Credit Suisse. 

[00:04:39] Bob Gatty: Really? 

[00:04:40] Todd Sears: I when I progressed through Merrill Lynch and ultimately was head of diversity strategy for them.

[00:04:45] And then I was recruited away to Credit Suisse to be head of diversity for the Americas for them. And in 2010, they laid me off. And so I found myself on my, I like to say, on my sofa with my severance check and multiple Hendricks martinis. And I thought, what's next? And where was that the happiest?

[00:05:01] And it was when I was getting an Irish Catholic company like Merrill to advocate for gay rights because I proved that there was a bottom line business opportunity. And in 2010, there were no companies doing that. CEOs were not speaking out. And I thought, could I create that conversation? Could I create that movement?

[00:05:16] And so we started with six banks, Bank Citi, Deutsche, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley. And that was my first summit. Used my severance check to fund it. And then we launched in London 12 years ago, in Hong Kong 10 years ago, here in Australia 9 years ago. And we've become the first and only global LGBT business organization.

[00:05:34] Bob Gatty: That's incredible. So you truly turn lemons into lemonade. 

[00:05:38] Todd Sears: Thank you. I like to think so. Yes. It's a pretty rewarding career. 

[00:05:42] Bob Gatty: Absolutely. So what was it in Speaker Johnson's background, Todd, that causes concern for you as an American and as an LGBTQ American? 

[00:05:54] Todd Sears: How much time do we 

[00:05:55] have 

[00:05:55] Bob Gatty: here, Bob?

[00:05:56] I don't know. You 

[00:05:59] Todd Sears: Oh my gosh. I, 

[00:06:01] Bob Gatty: besides people, I know, the guy is anyway, you talk . . 

[00:06:05] Todd Sears: Oh, it's that's sadly one of those answers that you don't even have to do much other than read anything about his past, whether it's sponsoring all of the anti-gay legislation or even saying that gay marriage was inherently unnatural and would lead to the demise of the democracy that we have.

[00:06:21] The man who literally thought that my existence would dismantle democracy is now the leader of part of our democratic process. So that as an American, as an LGBT American, and truthfully, I am glad that you said as an American, because this is not an LGBTQ issue. This is, this goes to the heart of who we are as a country.

[00:06:39] The vast majority of Americans support LGBT people. The vast majority of Americans support marriage equality. That was decided years ago. And by the way, almost 95 percent of corporate America supports LGBTQ people and has for two decades. So this man is out of step with not just the LGBTQ community, but the vast majority of Americans.

[00:06:59] Bob Gatty: I can say that about most Republicans, but that's another wing of this. 

[00:07:04] Todd Sears: It's true, unfortunately, and the outcome of that, of course, are these preponderance of anti LGBT bills we're seeing across the country. There have been almost 900. anti LGBTQ bills introduced in 49 state legislatures.

[00:07:17] And really, one, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, it's once again using gay people and trans people in this case as a wedge issue and creating fear to drive a right wing agenda. It's taking a page out of Anita Bryant's book from 40 years ago in California, unfortunately. It's the same words. So it's a really challenging time to be an LGBTQ American right now.

[00:07:38] Bob Gatty: Yeah, I can see that. It's got to be scary in a way. Johnson was the author of the National Don't Say Gay Bill, as you mentioned. What DeSantis is championing in Florida. Are you seeing, so you just mentioned, there's how many across the country? 

[00:07:57] Todd Sears: Almost 900 

[00:07:59] Bob Gatty: proposals laws, state legislatures, right?

[00:08:05] Todd Sears: That's right. 

[00:08:06] Bob Gatty: That are all in some way or another. Anti gay, anti LGBTQ, anti trans. Any of that. Correct. 

[00:08:15] Todd Sears: That's right. And one of the initiatives that outleadership has been driving the last five years in the United States is our LGBTQ climate index. We launched it right after marriage equality passed because most Americans thought that marriage equality would solve all the problems of discrimination that LGBTQ people face.

[00:08:33] And we knew that was not the case in 36 states, for example, conversion therapy is still legal or in 31 states. HIV is still criminalized and we didn't really have a resource that we could point to show that. And so we built this climate index that measures 20 different data points for every single U. S. state. And each year we announced the rankings in the last two years in USA today actually, and the idea of drawing a direct line to economic and talent opportunity from discrimination or lack thereof. And for example, our fearless now leader of the house is the state. Louisiana was the 48th out of 50 on our index this last year, primarily because of the anti L-G-B-T-Q legislation that he helped champion.

[00:09:15] And we're drawing a direct line for Florida, as you mentioned, so DeSantis's policies have had a direct impact on talent flight, on talent mobility, on companies wanting to invest in Florida, and even the numbers on tourism have dropped that we just I was just on Fox News Florida, a month ago, speaking about how the tourism numbers have dropped the reputation of Florida as an anti LGBTQ state does not just affect LGBTQ people. We have parents, as you are, who fear for their children. And by the way, even if your child is an anti LGBTQ, right thinking Americans, or not right wing, but right thinking Americans, don't want their kids in a school system that tells them that LGBTQ people are inherently wrong.

[00:09:55] So there are direct economic and talent consequences to these bills, and that's what we're trying to point out to all of these states so that they can do better. 

[00:10:03] Bob Gatty: Todd, what do you think is behind this movement against LGBTQ people these days? Is it, what is it? What's behind it?

[00:10:14] Todd Sears: It's not based on logic or science, I can tell you that, or even fact.

[00:10:19] It's based in fear. It's trying to create fear of the other. If you think back to when Anita Bryant, as I mentioned, was advocating against gay people being teachers in Florida, what did she say? She said it was about the children. It was about that somehow gay people were infiltrating schools to indoctrinate your children and groom them.

[00:10:38] Look at the words that the Republicans are using right now in the United States. They're using the exact same words that LGBTQ people are trying to groom children. And they're using the trans community because trans folks are unfortunately less visible and less understood. Because marriage equality passed almost six, almost seven years ago now, right?

[00:10:56] Not passed, but from the Supreme Court. People have figured out that's not in the world and that gay people weren't so scary and that they did know us and that our marriage didn't somehow threaten The institution of marriage, as everyone said it would or bring down democracy, as our now speaker said, but trans people are unfortunately not as understood.

[00:11:14] And so there's an opportunity to create fear that they're going to somehow take 

[00:11:18] scholarships if they play sports, or they are somehow going to convert your children to being one of a gender that doesn't exist. The trope that they have created, as I said, it's not based in fact, if you look at the American Pediatric Association has supported gender affirming care for years.

[00:11:34] Yeah. Because it's the right thing for these children with gender dysphoria, and yet you have politicians in Florida and Texas and all these states somehow thinking, one, that they know more than scientists, which of course they don't, but they're taking the rights away from parents, which of course is antithetical to the Republican doctrine of government overreach.

[00:11:51] You're taking away parental rights by legislation seems just wrong on every single level. 

[00:11:58] Bob Gatty: You mentioned that Louisiana is number 48 on your LGBTQ plus climate index. I looked at your index and I live in South Carolina and that's number 49. 

[00:12:11] Todd Sears: That's right. And I grew up in North Carolina and lived in South Carolina briefly. So I I'm quite familiar. I will say North Carolina. Interestingly, last year, after we published the climate index in 2022, the governor and his team reached out to outleadership and we actually helped North Carolina improve on the index. We worked with them on several pieces of legislation.

[00:12:30] Unfortunately, in this last August, the legislature pretty much undid all of the great work that he'd been able to do. But yes, the South unfortunately is significantly challenged on this index, but because of the laws and legislation that they continue to pass. 

[00:12:46] Bob Gatty: How did the country do overall on the index?

[00:12:49] Todd Sears: Interestingly, this year, for the first time since we've been measuring it, the country went down on average by 1. 14%, which is a really sad state of affairs. It's and it's not just for LGBTQ people, as I mentioned, but this is a global opportunity and challenge that we face right now. So as I, as you mentioned, I'm in Sydney, Australia right now and I'll be going to Tokyo on Saturday for our summit to kick off there for Asia.

[00:13:11] We'll be in Tokyo and Hong Kong. And the conversations that we're having here. I'm, I'm quote unquote explaining this to you, but you understand it, of course, but leaders here, leading multinationals, of course, number one, don't understand this, but also have to navigate places like Florida who are telling them that they can't support LGBTQ employees or women, by the way, who want to have a right to healthcare.

[00:13:31] And at the same time, they're operating in the EU and the European union, which is saying the exact opposite. The EU is incredibly LGBTQ friendly and is climate friendly and is not anti woke and all of these things that they're having to navigate in our country. And it's fundamentally just bad for business.

[00:13:47] And so I, I really hope that people start to wake up to this because it is not helping our country in any way. It's sending us not just backwards on civil rights, but it makes it harder for companies to do business in our country. 

[00:13:59] Bob Gatty: You've contended that the global business community continues to move in the direction of acceptance, correct?

[00:14:07] And if that is, that's good for the bottom line. How are companies and individuals making concrete commitment towards full LGBTQ plus inclusion? 

[00:14:21] Todd Sears: At every level, we've seen this commitment. So as I mentioned, I've had the pleasure of working with over 1200 CEOs around the world on this throughout leadership over the last 13 years.

[00:14:29] And to a leader, they understand why this matters to their employees. From a generational perspective, Gen Z, if you want to recruit a Gen Z young leader, the two things they care about from what a company is doing are what a company does with climate and for LGBTQ equality and diversity. Those are the two things that they look at a company.

[00:14:47] And we just launched an ESG initiative at the NASDAQ five weeks ago, and we've been convening companies around the world, 46 different companies over the last 24 months to connect those dots. And one of the major things that we were able to discern was that these young leaders look at ESG and CSR reports before they go into a first round interview.

[00:15:07] So it really does have a talent opportunity, and not just a talent opportunity, but it's something that companies are seeing results from. So the Republicans in Congress in July tried to outlaw ESG. They were having hearings to try to remove the ability for companies to have ESG, again, government overreach in the extreme.

[00:15:25] And yet, these companies are still making progress. I'll give you another example. Outleadership has been leading the charge for LGBTQ corporate board initiatives and corporate board inclusion for the last almost nine years. And When I started our Out Corps initiative, only two companies in the Fortune 500 included L-G-B-T-Q people and the definition of board diversity.

[00:15:45] We've been able to get hundreds of multinational companies to expand that definition, and most importantly, we were able to work with the nasdaq, who now has a board diversity requirement, that's L-G-B-T-Q inclusive because of out leadership. And that was done two years ago and it was just upheld by a federal judge. From 2022 to 2023 ,so just one year, we saw companies, there were 116 companies in the NASDAQ that included LGBTQ people last year. Now this year, 1, 871 include LGBTQ people in their board definition of diversity. So companies are doing this in a significant way because they understand that it does impact the bottom line and from a board perspective, it decreases risk and increases innovation and return.

[00:16:28] Bob Gatty: There's a conflict here. Republicans are supposed to be pro business. 

[00:16:33] Todd Sears: They used to say that, but they absolutely don't act that way, do they? 

[00:16:37] Bob Gatty: Not on this case.

[00:16:40] Todd Sears: Not in this case at all. If you and not just in Congress, by the way, the state level as well, Florida and Texas have sent letters to many of our member companies saying, if your company speaks out against our anti trans bills or our women's right to health care, we will not do business with you.

[00:16:56] And to affirm our companies have said, and this is privately, of course, but they have said this is our core value and we're not going to back down on our values. And so Texas as an example, decided that they would not use a quote unquote woke bank. for their latest bond issue. Interestingly, that meant they had to use local Texas banks and the Wall Street Journal last month reported that decision alone cost Texas taxpayers between 300 and 500 million of incremental interest.

[00:17:23] So their taxpayers are paying for these anti woke policies, not just their citizens and their talent.

[00:17:31] Bob Gatty: Are you concerned that Johnson will try to enact some of these things nationally? 

[00:17:36] Todd Sears: Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you expect? If he's leading the Republican caucus, of course, he's going to push his agenda, which is right wing extremist, radical, anti business, anti LGBTQ, the man's history speaks for itself.

[00:17:52] And unfortunately, that's not just in the, on the legislative side of things. We're also very concerned about the Supreme Court. They have signaled in the Roe v. Wade decision. That they will absolutely like to, they would absolutely like to dismantle Obergefell and Windsor. So LGBTQ rights are under attack at every level except the executive branch.

[00:18:11] Luckily, Biden has been an obviously an incredibly supportive president. But unfortunately he's only one of three. So we've got challenges that are significantly mounted by this new, this this new administration in the, in the house. 

[00:18:27] Bob Gatty: I saw that you guys released a new global talent survey showing a record number of LGBTQ plus employees feel comfortable being out at work.

[00:18:39] While finding today's workplace overwhelmingly supportive so do these, do those in the vocal minority promoting these anti woke policies put this trend in potential jeopardy? 

[00:18:52] Todd Sears: They absolutely do. So Outleadership has three talent initiatives globally. One is called OutNext. Which is the first and only global next generation talent program.

[00:19:02] We have 12, 000 young leaders that have gone through that program around the world. One called OutWomen for LGBTQ women and OutQuorum, the board program I mentioned. And we've published numbers of pieces of research over the years across these talent initiatives and Out to Succeed. Was our global talent report that we did five years ago and we just released out to succeed 2. 0, which had a sample size of almost 4500 young leaders globally across five continents. And as you mentioned, the number one data point that we saw this year was that 80 percent of these young leaders primarily Gen Y and Gen Z are out at work. And that's up from 36 percent 12 years ago. So the significant increase in these young leaders being out is a direct result of what these companies have been doing to support LGBTQ people in their corporate policies and in their actions over the last decade.

[00:19:49] And they're seeing the results of that because if you're out in the workplace, you're more likely to succeed, to feel comfortable, to be promoted, to be out to your colleagues. We have high levels of empathy, as I mentioned. And so we make great leaders in these companies. We read the room for psychological safety, every place we go because of the discrimination that exists.

[00:20:07] And so all of these anti LGBTQ policies are potentially sending these young people back in the closet in the States in which they live and work. And that's fundamentally and diametrically opposed to what the companies who do business in these states want.

[00:20:19] Bob Gatty: That's terrible. You mentioned the impact. I think you mentioned the economic impact in Florida.

[00:20:26] Did you mention that?

[00:20:28] Todd Sears: I did, yeah. Economic and talent, right? It's not just the tourism dollars that are dropped. But young people graduating from Florida universities so that they don't want to stay in the state. And people are leaving from a school system perspective. Teachers are resigning. People are not choosing to move to Florida.

[00:20:43] And by the way, that's not just people in the United States. We have heard from so many companies who have operations in Florida that they have people from Europe, for example, that will not move to Florida or afraid of moving to Florida or even have requested quote unquote hazard pay to move to Florida because of the environment that's been created there.

[00:21:00] I

[00:21:00] Bob Gatty: wouldn't move to Florida because of, I'd need some hazard pay too, but for different reasons, 

[00:21:06] Todd Sears: any number of reasons, unfortunately, 

[00:21:10] Bob Gatty: I'll tell you what I didn't know this, I used to like the vacation of Florida, but I won't go there now. Why would I do 

[00:21:16] Todd Sears: that? 

[00:21:17] I won't either. I will say something, though.

[00:21:19] I think it's really important to underscore that I don't think these policies reflect the vast majority of Americans. I actually don't think Floridians as a whole are anti LGBTQ. I do not think that these politicians speak for the majority of their populace. And survey after survey shows that. Even if you look at governors sorry, mayors across Florida, the mayors of all the major cities have created anti LGBTQ discrimination bills that they're trying to promote and protect their citizens.

[00:21:47] And if you survey Americans and you're very clear about what discrimination means for LGBTQ people, that's just not in the American ethos. That's not who we are as a country. And so I think it's so important that we keep that in mind as well. And that's why we've been trying to do this work to educate people about what the reality is of these policies because the right wing talking points don't actually explain what they are. And when people understand what they're actually voting for and voting against, they actually are much more inclusive than we think. And so I think that's, I always think that's important to say. It's not that these states, that the people in the states are bad people or anti gay people.

[00:22:22] There are those out there, of course, but it's, these politicians are not actually speaking for their electorate. 

[00:22:28] Bob Gatty: Now, I think you're right there. You're running these these sessions in foreign countries. What are you finding in terms of, are you finding that attitudes are more restrictive or less restrictive in some of these countries that you're going to?

[00:22:47] Todd Sears: Australia, so Australia is significantly more LGBTQ inclusive than the United States right now. If you look at, they do not have the anti trans bills coming across their parliamentary legislatures here. New South Wales, for example, Sydney, just hosted World Pride in February and March.

[00:23:05] And invited the entire world to Australia and I was here for almost five weeks because our leadership was a part of World Pride. We did five different events. In fact, we convened the largest gathering of CEOs in history to talk about LGBTQ rights here at World Pride in Sydney. We had 45 CEOs together for a dinner to discuss exactly what they are and can do to support LGBTQ rights in their organizations. And if you look at that, just one example versus what we're seeing in the United States, it couldn't be more different. The governor of New South Wales had a pride event at her at her residence, which by the way, looks like a castle. It's beautiful. It's amazing.

[00:23:41] Queen Elizabeth planted one of the trees in front of it 60 years ago and had the trans flag flying a top of the governor's mansion for New South Wales. You don't see that in very many of the U. S. states right now.

[00:23:55] Bob Gatty: You won't see that in South Carolina, I'll tell you that.

[00:23:59] Todd Sears: You absolutely will not see that in South Carolina.

[00:24:01] You're much more likely to see another flag that's not so inclusive there, unfortunately. 

[00:24:05] Bob Gatty: Actually, they took it down, but, 

[00:24:07] Todd Sears: on the Capitol grounds, but not across the state sometimes. That's true, 

[00:24:11] Bob Gatty: absolutely. I... I'm out a lot in my car, and I see a lot of big old pickup trucks with great big old flags hanging off the back of them.

[00:24:23] And lots of times they're either Trump flags or they're the other flag, 

[00:24:30] Todd Sears: right? I know I'm not 

[00:24:31] Bob Gatty: talking about the American flag. They do fly the American flag, but they also fly the confederate flag 

[00:24:37] Todd Sears: And the example of the woman in California being killed because she had a pride flag on the front of her store.

[00:24:43] This, the, I think the important thing about all of these bills is that it is creating this hatred and this permission to be vicious that, that did not exist eight, 10 years ago before the Trump administration and all of this, these MAGA Republicans there are real human consequences to these bills.

[00:25:01] Suicide among the trans community has skyrocketed. LGBTQ people experience higher anxieties than ever before. And as I mentioned, violence against anti and violence against our community has increased, I think, tenfold in some states. That they're, these laws are not just happening in a vacuum.

[00:25:18] There are real human consequences. And by the way, the laws are seeking to solve a problem that doesn't exist. And there are states that have passed anti trans sports bills that don't have a single trans kid trying to play a sport. They literally are just focusing on this to drive an agenda rather than focusing on things that actually matter to Americans, whether it's healthcare or building infrastructure or jobs, those are the things that they should be doing versus focusing on the most vulnerable population of LGBTQ people.

[00:25:43] Bob Gatty: Okay, now for those folks who would like to learn more about what outleadership does, how can they get in touch with you guys and maybe even be part of the movement? 

[00:25:56] Todd Sears: Thank you for asking that. I would love that. Outleadership. com has all the information on how companies can join. As I mentioned, we are a membership organization.

[00:26:04] We're actually creating a new supporter level for Outleadership so that any company in the world, even if they don't have to be a multinational, but a small business, a mid cap business could join Outleadership's movement. And individuals as well. All of our research and data is free and available on our site.

[00:26:19] And so we encourage people to check it out. We have CEO briefs. We have so many other initiatives that we haven't gotten to speak about today. Thank you. But I would love for people to go online and to use those resources at the state level. Look at what your state climate index score is. Share it with your elected officials.

[00:26:34] There's so many ways people can get involved. And then, of course, on social media, at Outleadership or at Todd Sears. 

[00:26:40] Bob Gatty: Todd, we do have a couple more minutes if you'd like to discuss some of the other things that you guys do.

[00:26:48] Todd Sears: Sure. Yeah, I would love that. So one of the things that that specifically to the trans community that we've been working on for almost four years was our business leaders guide to trans equality.

[00:26:57] Because we had so many leaders who didn't fully understand the trans experience and what trans people actually go through and who trans people even are. And we wanted to dispel the myths of that. So we published the first, and I think still only, piece of research focused on educating the business community.

[00:27:13] And in partnership with that, or in concert with that, we created the business leader statement on trans equality. And we had over 300 companies sign that statement. We launched it at the NASDAQ. And I point that out again, because it's diametrically opposed, or speaks for how the business committee thinks about trans people and how out of step these Republicans are with these anti LGBTQ bills. So I think that's one major resource. And I think from a parent perspective as well, something that even came up last night at our Sydney the closing of our Sydney summit, which is that the parents of LGBTQ people, especially trans and gender non conforming people are really challenged now.

[00:27:53] But also are speaking up in amazing ways. There, there's a a case in Texas, actually of a mother because Texas, for example, passed this legislation that said that parents of trans people would be considered child abusers. And the governor is literally sending health and human services and child protective services into homes of trans parents.

[00:28:14] And one parent is actually suing the state with PFLAG. We had to actually speak at our U. S. summit. And she describes the horror of having her family be under investigation and she and her husband being accused of child abuse. Their trans kid transitioned five years ago and is a healthy, happy, honorable student.

[00:28:33] And she is now being, having to defend herself against child protective services who came into her home. Imagine the trauma of that. And so I think the work that we're trying to do and so many other organizations, by the way, are focusing on this, not just LGBT organizations. I, it's just, you can't understate the human impact of what's happening to not just our community, but to our families.

[00:28:56] Bob Gatty: Okay, Todd. Listen, thank you so much. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we close up 

[00:29:01] Todd Sears: now? I just want to thank you for the time. It's really important that we do get the messages out there because that's how you not just change hearts and minds, but get people the tools to advocate for change.

[00:29:10] So thank you for having me.