The Green Amendment and Climate Change

Show Transcript

The Green Amendment & Climate Change

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: President Biden had to cut a deal with the Republicans to get the debt limit extension passed and avoid an economic catastrophe. But in doing so, he had to water down his climate change initiative, and that's causing a lot of concern among environmentalists. We're gonna talk about that today with someone who's in the trenches and a lot more, so stay with us .

[00:00:26] Maya Van Rossam is the Delaware Riverkeeper and leader for the Delaware Riverkeeper Network, the Delaware Riverkeeper Network works through the four states of the Delaware River Watershed, which are New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware at the national level using advocacy, science and litigation.

[00:00:49] During Van Russo's 30 years leading the network, she and her organization were the lead plaintiffs in a successful case that had the Pennsylvania Supreme Court breathe legal life into Pennsylvania's long ignored environmental rights amendment. Now, van Rossam is advancing the Green Amendment movement, seeking to inspire and secure constitutional protection for environmental rights across the nation.

[00:01:20] She's the author of a book entitled The Green Amendment, the People's Fight for a Clean, safe, and Healthy Environment. Meanwhile, she's just returned from Montana for a groundbreaking climate trial in which the young plaintiffs argued that Montana officials and agencies must be held accountable for exacerbating the climate crisis and thereby violating their constitutional rights.

[00:01:47] It marked the first constitutional climate trial in US history. So welcome Maya to the Lean to the Left Podcast. We got a lot of stuff to talk about today. 

[00:01:57] Maya Van Rossum: I'm so glad to be here. Yes, we have a lot to talk about. 

[00:02:02] Bob Gatty: All right. First of all, let's get into that trial in Montana. In a minute we'll get into what you're doing with the Green Amendment and, the riverkeepers, but I wanna get into this Montana trial.

[00:02:14] It sounds like it's a groundbreaking development. What's going on and what are the implications? Maya? 

[00:02:21] Maya Van Rossum: In the United States of America, there right now are three states, but only three states that lift up environmental rights to give them highest constitutional standing.

[00:02:33] They literally place the rights of the people to things like pure water, clean air, a healthy environment, place them constitutionally on par with other fundamental rights, like the right to free speech and freedom of religion, for example. Those three states are Pennsylvania, as of last year New York, and the state of Montana. 

[00:02:52] And in Montana, the bill of, or the Declaration of Rights language in the state constitution says that the people have a right to a clean and healthful environment. And so the argument that the youth plaintiffs were making was that Montana government officials are really exacerbating the climate crisis, growing the climate crisis by perpetuating the ongoing extraction, transportation and consumption of dirty fossil fuels in the state, and as a result, they're making the climate crisis worse. And in so doing, they are violating the right of the youth plaintiffs to a clean and healthful environment, the constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment. So this whole trial was about proving that the plaintiffs are actually being harmed by the climate crisis.

[00:03:45] How? Proving that in Montana the climate changing emissions are being released at an increasing rate because of government action. And that the right to a safe climate should be in included as part of the right to a clean and helpful environment. If all those three things fall into place, then the youth plaintiffs should win and Montana, government officials should really have to do right by the plaintiffs and do better when it comes to the climate crisis, including not perpetuating the ongoing use and growth of, fossil fuels in the state. 

[00:04:28] Bob Gatty: All right. So you're in Pennsylvania. Why did you go all the way to Montana for this trial?

[00:04:34] Maya Van Rossum: So I actually founded what I call my Green Amendment movement back in 2014. Okay. And that was because in my role as the Delaware Riverkeeper as part of my efforts to battle fracking, I challenged, I along with seven municipalities, challenged a very pro fracking law that was passed in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania by the Pennsylvania legislature and was signed by the governor, and this fracking was happening in Pennsylvania, but this law put in place automatic waivers from environmental protection standards. It preempted the authority of local communities to exert any zoning authority and where fracking could be allowed to happen in their community.

[00:05:20] In fact, fracking had to be allowed to happen in every part of every community by virtue of this law. And so long story short, after this legislation was passed and I knew that it was gonna exponentially expand fracking in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, making a bad situation devastatingly worse, I had to think and reflect with my team, like, how can we challenge a law that's been passed by the legislature and signed by the governor?

[00:05:45] And we recognized that in the Bill of Rights section of the Pennsylvania Constitution, there was a long ignored right of the people to pure water, clean air, and a healthful environment. And so we decided that we were gonna challenge this law on constitutional grounds. And long story short, we were victorious.

[00:06:04] And so in December of 2013, we defeated this pro fracking law before it was allowed to inflict its devastating harms. In the wake of that victory, I looked at Pennsylvania's language that had actually been placed in the Constitution in 1971, and I identified all the things that made this constitutional entitlement so powerful that it allowed us to defeat a law.

[00:06:28] And I then looked at every state constitution across the nation and found at that time, Only Montana had this similar kind of constitutional entitlement. And so that's when back 20 13, 20 14, I started to write the book about the Green Amendment and I embarked on this journey to seek to have this kind of constitutional environmental rights entitlement added to every state constitution across the nation and ultimately, At the federal level. There have been a number of really, in addition to my success against that pro-fracking law, there have been a number of really powerful cases demonstrating the power of this kind of constitutional protection. And we've secured a green amendment in the state in New York, and we have green amendment movements advancing in 15 other states.

[00:07:18] But this trial was really going to be a trial with evidence presented. And it was going to be the first time where the right to a clean and healthful environment was going to be tested to determine whether or not it could help address the climate crisis. And so I really wanted to be there to see the arguments that were being made on literally both sides of the aisle and, witness so that I could come and speak with people like you about what actually happened, what was said. And do I think that the plaintiffs are gonna be victorious? Which by the way, I think they will be. 

[00:07:58] Bob Gatty: Really? You think they will? 

[00:08:01] Maya Van Rossum: Oh, I think they will be. And, the reason why I think they will be, and I've been saying this all along when, you know there have been lots of climate actions based on constitutional language.

[00:08:13] Cuz almost every state talks about the environment in their constitutions, but they don't do it in a way that makes it right of the people and gives it the greatest constitutional legal strength only Pennsylvania. Montana. And again now New York have done that. And so I have long said in my talks and in my book and on shows like this, that I believe that when a case is brought that is grounded in the kind of green amendment that I advocate for, that I believe it can be demonstrated to help address, to be victorious in proving that the right to a stable, to a safe climate is part of the environmental rights of the people.

[00:08:55] And, government can be held accountable to to address the climate in a meaningful way based on that constitutional entitlement. So I've long believed that the language, the Bill of Rights placement, along with the language in Montana and Pennsylvania, is the right language to support this kind of case.

[00:09:16] And so it was really exciting that that the case was brought and is going so forward. Cuz a lot of the other cases have been Lost on very early on, on motions to dismiss. This case has survived multiple motions to dismiss and again, actually has now gone to trial. And so we'll see what the judge says.

[00:09:36] But I think whatever way the judge rules the case is gonna be appealed and I'm sure it's gonna continue on up the, on the judicial train. 

[00:09:45] Bob Gatty: It could end up before the US Supreme Court. 

[00:09:48] Maya Van Rossum: It would end up before the Montana Supreme Court. Cause this is a Montana constitutional entitlement.

[00:09:53] Bob Gatty: Oh, I see. Okay. And it's a civil trial, right? 

[00:09:58] Maya Van Rossum: Yes. And it's based on the constitution and the victory, if there is once victory is achieved, which again, I believe it will be it's not gonna be about getting money for the plaintiffs, it's gonna be about fixing the cause of the problem.

[00:10:13] And so a determination that what Montana's government officials are doing currently is resulting in a constitutional violation and so that they have to change their behavior and bring it within the bounds of the Constitution. And exactly what that looks like is, yet to be seen. But the first step is to make clear that what Montana government is doing currently is resulting in this kind of constitutional violation.

[00:10:40] Bob Gatty: Okay. I wanna make, sure that our audience understands you are an attorney, right?

[00:10:46] Maya Van Rossum: I am an attorney and I've also been an activist and environmental activist for 30 years, and my organization, my Delaware Riverkeeper Network organization as compared to my Green Amendments for the Generations organization part of the core of what we do is litigate.

[00:11:03] So I don't serve as the litigator for my organization. I have the joy of being the plaintiff, but of course I'm very involved in our legal actions. 

[00:11:13] Bob Gatty: Okay, good. Now let's talk a little bit about the green Amendment, what it would do and is there an effort to do this in as a federal law as opposed to, you've been talking about state by state.

[00:11:31] Maya Van Rossum: Yeah. When it comes to the environment in United States of America, there's a real carefully crafted and respected division of power where the states have a lot of power when it comes to environmental protection. The federal government has a lot of power when it comes to environmental protection, and very often the federal government might set the floor of what needs to be done, but the states are allowed to do better. Recognizing that and also recognizing that at the state level, constitutional amendments happen all the time. They happen with great regularity, not so at the federal level. And most people haven't thought about this concept, most people actually, when I talk with them, they think that they have a right to a clean, healthy glass of water coming out of their faucet as dictated by environmental protection laws, and that's not actually the case. The way our laws are written at the state level, at the federal level they're primarily focused on legalizing environmental pollution, degradation, and harm. If you get the right reviews and the right permits, you can go forth and inflict the damage.

[00:12:34] And in that system too often there are many things that are left unregulated, and there are many places and spaces where the accumulation of harm over space and time, results in devastating consequences for communities. So with all of that as the background, I really believe that the best strategic path forward for getting this kind of constitutional entitlement is to start at the state level first, because number one, we get powerful protection cuz the states do have a lot of power.

[00:13:05] Number two, we're much more likely to have success in the near term and get that protection in the near term because amendments at the state level happen quite frequently. And number three, While we're going forth and doing that work of educating and organizing, seeking and securing and proving the power of green amendments at that state level, going state by state, we're actually creating the awareness and the foundation necessary to ultimately have a successful federal effort.

[00:13:37] But if we hop to the federal level first, We're not gonna succeed because we haven't laid the foundation and we're gonna literally suck all of the oxygen out of the room. All the attention and all the money will go towards this federal effort that hasn't been properly positioned to succeed.

[00:13:55] So I feel like the better strategy, again, being an activist for all these years, the better strategy is to go state by state, do the work, create the necessary foundation, and at some point in the not too distant future, I think we'll reach a tipping point in terms of successes at the state level. And it will become clear that we've gotten to the point where we can now in a very meaningful way, focus on also at the same time, in addition to work towards getting a federal amendment. Cause we need them both. We need state amendments to hold state legislators and municipal officials and judges and governors and regulatory agencies accountable at the state level. But of course we also need a federal amendment to hold the Congress and the President and the e p a and agencies accountable.

[00:14:46] We need them both. One or the other isn't gonna be good enough. So just strategically, the going state by state first makes the most strategic sense. 

[00:14:56] Bob Gatty: Okay. I just wanna let you know and, our listeners that I have a another guest Jack Kerfoot, who is an Environmental activist. He's a former Oil industry executive.

[00:15:12] But years ago, he I guess you could say, saw the light and for the last many years he's been working to fight climate change and to reduce America's Reliance on fossil fuel. Jack has put together we actually, Jack and I have put together a series of of podcasts that analyze state by state.

[00:15:38] It's through regions. We're doing northeast, southeast, Northwest and so on. What individual states are doing to reduce reliance on fossil fuel. And, we launched that on Thursday, the 29th of June. And that will be continuing. Every couple weeks, probably over the next few weeks. We have five episodes, so I just wanted to let you know that Maya, I think you'd be interested in that.

[00:16:11] And and, I just wanted to put in a little plug to our listeners to be watching for those episodes. 

[00:16:18] Maya Van Rossum: That sounds really, great and I am interested and I, I do also hope that one of the things that you might add to a future episode as you're thinking about the continuing evolution of this, because I'm sure it will be so great it'll continue on. One of the states, one of the things that states are doing, activists in states are doing or pursuing these green amendments and Pennsylvania and Montana when their amendments were passed. That was, Pennsylvania was in 71, Montana was in 72. Neither of the amendments got used in a meaningful way until later on.

[00:16:52] And I told you Pennsylvania's story in a really quickly, Montana's first use was in 99, but the amendments that are advancing in the 15 other states, Places from New Jersey to Texas, to Washington to Hawaii and more, they, for the most part at my encouragement, these states are explicitly including the right to a safer, stable climate in the language so that it's no longer, you don't have to prove that a safe climate is part of the right to a clean and healthful environment.

[00:17:24] The constitutional entitlement will actually say it. Forthright front and center. And so that, that is a, will be a more powerful tool as well for folks. 

[00:17:33] Bob Gatty: Alright, good. Alright. Now let's talk about the climate deal. The climate deal, the budget deal that Biden had to cut with the Republicans and tell, me why, there's a problem with with some of the provisions of that agreement.

[00:17:50] Maya Van Rossum: First and foremost, I don't know that I agree that he had to cut it. Okay. And there was a lot of strategic talk about actually using a constitutional amendment to avoid having to cut this kind of deal. Or any deal whatsoever. And it was a real disappointment that the president didn't consider that more seriously and actually went down this path.

[00:18:10] Lemme go really quickly over the three things. And then we can dive in more deeply. Number one, the limitations on budget funding for critical agencies, which will include the Environmental Protection agency, agencies like the Department of the Interior. That's gonna result in a limitation of needed resources to implement and enforce the environmental laws that we have on the books.

[00:18:34] And of course, under the previous administration, already those agencies were severely cut and they need more resources, so that's a problem. The second problem is that the deal unilaterally amended from this backroom deal making, of which the public had no part nor did most of their legislators.

[00:18:56] There was the amendment of an iconic core environmental protection law. Actually the first major federal environmental piece of legislation passed in this nation, the National Environmental Policy Act. Which is a law critical for ensuring full, fair and serious consideration of the environmental ramifications of government action before it's taken, as well as consideration of alternatives.

[00:19:22] That law got amended in really significant ways that undermines its strength and the ability of people to use it and be protected by it. And so the undermining of the law is a problem. But the other thing is, now the precedent is set that if you and the legislature want to get significant amendments to critical environmental protection laws that you can't get through the normal legislative process because the public won't support it.

[00:19:53] Ah, you just cut a backroom deal over the debt ceiling, right? Yeah, Now this time it was the National Environmental Policy Act. I anticipate the next time it'll probably be the Clean Water Act, cuz there have been many efforts to gut the Clean Water Act by legislators. They have not been successful, but I'm sure now this is gonna be the new strategy.

[00:20:13] So that's number two. And and number three, this debt ceiling or this deal? I, don't, I can't, it makes me throw up that, it's called the Fiscal Responsibility Act. But that's what it's called. It actually also greased the wheels and mandated old federal government approvals for a very controversial fossil fuel project called the Mountain Valley Pipeline Project.

[00:20:42] A 303 mile long frack gas project that will cut through forists and mountains and rivers, environments, communities, public property, private property. In West Virginia and Virginia when it's in operation, it will be responsible for the release of 89 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalents every single year.

[00:21:04] And this pipeline has been successfully challenged by communities and residents of all kinds, challenged in the courts, and they have been winning because it's a bad project that cannot honor the critical environmental and community protection laws on the books. But now what the, debt ceiling deal has done is it has mandated that all government, federal government approvals be given for this project by virtue of the debt ceiling deal, and it has stripped away the ability of residents to challenge those approvals in the courts. So now not only are we going to have this devastating environmental climate exacerbating fossil fuel perpetuating project with the rights of people stripped away by virtue of the debt ceiling to challenge it through normal advocacy and judicial procedures.

[00:22:12] But we have also now signaled to all legislators. Votes are for sale, and the next time there's a debt ceiling, quote unquote crisis. You want my vote for the deal? Make sure you put in my dirty fossil fuel, environmentally devastating community, right stripping project. And unless you do that, you don't get my vote.

[00:22:36] This, the Mountain Valley Pipeline project was put in there to buy the vote of Joe Manchin. And so now again, this deal now says votes are for sale, but only if the president caves and allows these devastating projects to be mandated by virtue of the debt ceiling deal. So it's a very dangerous precedent when we're talking about legislative amendment or reform or whether we're talking about dirty, devastating projects. It's all about votes for sale now in the next debt ceiling debate that comes along. It's a bad deal. 

[00:23:16] Bob Gatty: Yeah. You really put it into perspective there. Let's talk a little bit about the river keepers and what you're doing with the river keepers. You started that, what, 30 years ago? 

[00:23:27] Maya Van Rossum: So it was actually started by the community, right? I have the honor being the Riverkeeper the start of the organization was really a community effort.

[00:23:34] Now, wait a minute 

[00:23:35] Bob Gatty: now, the river, that's a title that you have, the Riverkeeper. 

[00:23:39] Maya Van Rossum: Yes. So the Delaware Riverkeeper 

[00:23:41] Bob Gatty: Do, you have, excuse me? Do you have a hat or a uniform or something or? 

[00:23:46] Maya Van Rossum: I, have an aura. 

[00:23:48] Bob Gatty: Aura. Ok. Alright, go ahead. 

[00:23:52] Maya Van Rossum: What I have is, I have a personal responsibility to make sure that I am always doing right by the river and that I, being the river's voice in our human world, even when it's a difficult thing to do. And so that's really my job is to make sure that the river does have a voice. Now 

[00:24:11] Bob Gatty: Why, did you start doing that? 

[00:24:14] Maya Van Rossum: So there was actually at the time the Delaware River. So the Delaware Riverkeeper is the person, and I'm the person with the honor of bearing that title and have beared it for 30 years now.

[00:24:24] The Delaware Riverkeeper network is the organization. Because taking care of a river as large and wonderful as the Delaware River is not the job of one person. It the job of community. And that's Delaware.

[00:24:37] We were organizing the organization. There was one other organization in the nation on the Hudson where there was a Riverkeeper, the Hudson Riverkeeper. The first Hudson Riverkeeper was John Cronin, and a gentleman named Bob Boyle conceived of this idea of having a person that was representing the river in the halls of government out in the community and again, taking personal responsibility for standing up for and protecting that river. And here in the Delaware River Watershed communities saw the power of that approach. Cause people connect with people. Sure, and people wanna follow people.

[00:25:22] And so seeing somebody exemplify how important it is to, have that personal dedication to the natural resource that is the river and how inspiring that can be. People in the Delaware said that's a really great idea. Our Delaware River needs a voice in our human world, so we're gonna have a Delaware Riverkeeper for the Delaware River and we're going to have our organization and, okay, there you go. 

[00:25:49] Bob Gatty: So did you have to run for that position or did you just get appointed or what? 

[00:25:54] Maya Van Rossum: So, the organization was created and then there was a, gentleman, he's actually, we've lost him.

[00:26:00] His name was oh my gosh. He was with the Ray Profit Foundation Joe, Awesome, though. That's not his last name. Why is he? He's dear, friend. Awesome. He was actually, or no? No, actually it was Ray, profit Joe worked with, Ray. Ray profit was actually the first one to have that title of the Riverkeeper and then for a brief period of time there was another woman and then The, powers that be really had me take on that role.

[00:26:35] And it, it really was a decision of the organization as a community. So I didn't run for it. There was a, there was we have a board of directors, we have a staff, we have members, and I, guess through the work that I have been doing, it just naturally Okay. Fell in 

[00:26:52] Bob Gatty: place then. Now does the how does it get funded?

[00:26:56] The river keepers? 

[00:26:58] Maya Van Rossum: So the Delaware River Keeper Network, as well as green amendments for the generations, cuz I run them both. So my personal principles and values dictate this kinda thing is it's donations and grants. Okay. We're not taking money from big business because while anybody who knows me personally knows you, you can't buy Maya.

[00:27:19] Bob Gatty: That's pretty obvious. I've talked to you for what, 20 minutes or half an hour or whatever, and I sure as hell wouldn't try to buy your. 

[00:27:28] Maya Van Rossum: But people have ,but the thing is, not everybody knows me, so if, I were ever to take money from the fossil fuel industry or corporations or people who are harming the river, or harming the , and let's say I settled a lawsuit in the best possible way I could, or I took a position on an issue and, you didn't agree with the position that I had taken. If I was taking money from the industry, you might say, ah, that's why she took that position.

[00:28:01] Bob Gatty: Sure. Exactly. 

[00:28:02] Maya Van Rossum: She, they, somebody bought her. But, because I don't, what people say is say usually hopefully people care about the river, agree with my positions, but they might say I don't exactly agree with what she's saying or what she's doing, but I know she's doing it because she believes that is what is right for the river and the river communities.

[00:28:25] And so it's not, it might be a disagreement, but it's not a doubt about my motivations and that is really important to me. All I have. Is that respect and that reputation and people knowing that I'm doing what I believe is right for the river. And so that's really important to me. So I, won't take the, that, that dirty money.

[00:28:46] And besides that, I don't wanna help a company greenwash for themselves. I don't want a company to be able to, oh we're, a good company because yeah, we donate to the right, we donate to the river. That's BS if you're if you're doing wrong, the only way you get out of that is by doing right.

[00:29:03] And then we'll respect you. 

[00:29:05] Bob Gatty: There you go. All right. All right. Let's talk about your book, the Green Amendment. The People's Fight to Secure a Clean, safe, and Healthy Environment. It's now in its second edition, so must be doing pretty well, huh? 

[00:29:19] Maya Van Rossum: I think so. And then the most important thing about the book, right?

[00:29:23] I didn't, first off, if anybody buys the book, every penny goes to the Green Amendment movement. Not a single penny goes in Maya's pocket, cuz this is not about making money for Maya, this is about saving the world. So that's number one for people 

[00:29:36] Bob Gatty: today. Okay, we're all about saving the world. 

[00:29:38] Maya Van Rossum: We're all about same the world.

[00:29:40] But I really I wrote the book to help inspire people to wanna join the Green Amendment movement and get on the Green Amendment path. So it's a book filled with stories that explain why our current laws don't work and how real people are being harmed as a result of this current system of laws.

[00:29:59] Tell stories about how the Green Amendments that exists primarily in Pennsylvania and Montana and now New York, how they are making a difference in a positive, powerful way. And then telling stories about how people are coming together to advance this Green Amendment pathway in their own states, what they're doing, why they're doing it.

[00:30:19] So it's a lot of stories of real people as well as an effort to help hopefully not just inspire, but also educate people so they can become Green Amendment champions in their own right. 

[00:30:30] Bob Gatty: Okay. And this book can be found where. 

[00:30:34] Maya Van Rossum: It can be found anywhere. Okay. So that's good. If people go to, for the generations.org, f o r t h e generations.org, there's a tab for the book and there's a link to Barnes and Noble, independent booksellers, Amazon.

[00:30:52] You can go to all of those outlets directly too. Sure. You can pretty much find it anywhere. Okay. There's a, or you can go to that page if you have concerns about buying from a particular kind of outlet you can go to that page, find different options, or you can buy it directly from the organization, which means more money goes into the pocket of the organization.

[00:31:13] Okay. To do this good work. And there was something else important I was gonna say, plus you can find other resources and things to help you on your Green Amendment journey if you go that way. But otherwise, oh, that was the other thing is you can get it, it's in print, right? So there are real books.

[00:31:31] Okay. Okay. It's an e or there's an audio version. 

[00:31:34] Bob Gatty: Okay. It's been a pleasure. If you got anything else you'd like to add, Maya?

[00:31:39] Maya Van Rossum: No, I just really appreciate being here. I look forward to your upcoming climate podcast. I really wanna hear that, cuz I think that's really gonna help me and my work. And I thank you for the opportunity to hopefully get people to join the Green Amendment movement and or fight for the Delaware River or their own rivers.

[00:31:56] Bob Gatty: That's what I wanted to ask you. How can people contribute to the two initiatives that you're working on? 

[00:32:05] Maya Van Rossum: So for Green Amendments for the generations go to www for the generations dot with an S on the end.org. For the Delaware Riverkeeper network, go to www.delawareriverkeeper.org and in both of those places you'll find information, resources, ways to engage the ability to sign up for free.

[00:32:28] Cuz I don't believe you should have to pay money in order to be part of an environmental movement. But of course there is also a, tab to donate. 

[00:32:36] Bob Gatty: Okay. Great. All right. So thank you very much, Maya. I appreciate you being with us on Lean to the Left. 

[00:32:43] Maya Van Rossum: Thank you for having me.