Lessons from 'Coming Out'- Strategies to Get Unstuck

Show Transcript

John Neral: Lessons from ‘Coming Out’

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: John Neral was 10 years old when his mom told him not to go to bed with a woman until he was married. 18 years later, he came out to his parents as gay. Today, he coaches clients on how to show up in their lives and careers. It's an interesting story. So stay with us .

[00:00:21] Now what they're showing up mean when it comes to our personal and professional lives.

[00:00:26] John Neral works with clients every day, helping them to get unstuck in their lives so they can achieve their potential. He's a certified professional coach who helps mid year professionals find a job they love or love the job they have. For 25 years his career was in education and as a corporate consultant for Casio America.

[00:00:50] He's the host of the Mid Career GPS podcast and author of Show Up, Six Strategies to Lead a More Energetic and Impactful Career and your mid career GPS, four steps to figuring out what's next. And now the game show enthusiast and professional bowler who won a title on the PVA regional tour, and I'm very envious of that because I love the bowl, John lives near Washington, D. C. with his spouse and their cat. Amy Farah Meowler. John, thanks for joining us today on the Leading to the Left podcast. 

[00:01:30] John Neral: Bob, I am so honored to be with you today. I'm looking forward to our conversation, and thanks for the introduction. 

[00:01:36] Bob Gatty: John, first thing, let's do the important stuff first.

[00:01:40] Where the hell did the cat's name come from? 

[00:01:43] John Neral: Oh, so we love the Big Bang Theory. Mayim Bialik's character is Amy Farrah. Fowler. And so we love a good pun. So we just changed the name around. We we went to the local adoption agency. We rescued two cats. We called them Sheldon and Amy. And Amy did not like getting along with Sheldon.

[00:02:03] So Amy now rules the roost here at home. 

[00:02:07] Bob Gatty: So what happened to Sheldon? 

[00:02:10] John Neral: So We have a three story townhouse, and they got into a fight, and Amy's a rather large cat. 

[00:02:17] Bob Gatty: He dropped him out the window, is that it? 

[00:02:20] John Neral: Yeah, he pretty much backed her in between the spindles and dropped 14 feet to the main level.

[00:02:26] And she was mad. Mad. And so we had tried everything we could do to acclimate the two of them together, and so we had to make a decision. It was a no kill shelter, we brought Sheldon back, he got a wonderful new forever home. And, yeah, it was. It was not going to be pleasant with two cats in the house.

[00:02:42] Amy ended up winning that fight. 

[00:02:44] Bob Gatty: That's really funny. I'm happy for Amy. 

[00:02:48] John Neral: All right. 

[00:02:49] Bob Gatty: All right. So let's talk about showing up. You say how you show up matters. Tell us what you mean by that. 

[00:02:57] John Neral: It's how I end every episode of my podcast because it is honoring the way we choose to live our lives very genuinely and authentically, whether it's at home or at work.

[00:03:12] How we show up matters is about the differences we make in the relationships in our lives. The connections we build and we continue to strengthen and reinforce every single day Throughout my career in education One of the things that I knew was that I had to show up for my middle school students every day. Bob if you want a tough audience teach mathematics to 11 to 14 year olds They will tell you when you are great and they will tell you when you suck at it And so it was I had to show up at my best every single day.

[00:03:47] So I had to show up every day at my best and through, through those examples and other examples in my life, if I was going to be successful in whatever I was doing, I needed to figure out what it meant for me to show up.

[00:04:02] Bob Gatty: What other examples in your life are you talking about? 

[00:04:06] John Neral: So you mentioned at the top of the episode when my mom sat me down when I was 10 and told me if I ever went to bed with a woman before I was married, she hoped I'd see her face instead of the girl I was with. And at 10, that's not the message you want to get from your folks.

[00:04:22] Okay. I grew up in a very staunch religious household. It was not something that I. Because Bob, you and I think are going to get this reference. I don't know if our listeners will hear it today, but being an avid game show fan Paul Lind and Charles Nelson Reilly were the ones that I was like, Oh, okay.

[00:04:42] And they had that kind of acerbic type humor and things like that. My parents were very clear in what they expected of me. And when I started realizing that I wasn't going to be able to do that, I had to figure out a different way to show up. And so it was through my coming out experience that, here are the big things I learned from that.

[00:05:08] I had to own where I was. There was an opportunity for me to welcome that I was going to live my life as I saw best. And the one thing, Bob, I did not want to happen was I did not want to lose the relationship I had with my parents. Okay. And I knew that when I showed up and I told them and I said those three words, I am gay.

[00:05:39] They were not going to be happy. And for 22 months, we didn't talk. Okay. And it wasn't until my mom got diagnosed with breast cancer. And she said to me, before I go into the hospital for my procedure, I want to see you. And I went down to the house, met with them. We had a very intentional conversation.

[00:06:05] At the time I came out, I was dating somebody. Twenty two months later, I no longer was with that person. And my mom gloated. She was like good. And I go, you don't get to do that. You don't get to disparage my relationship. My friends, I go, my friends were there for me when you couldn't be so if we're going to do this moving forward We need to set some ground rules We set ground rules and made agreements about how we were going to handle disagreements how we were going to talk to each other, what questions we would ask or couldn't ask and Thankfully Bob, my mom got through the procedure She was diagnosed cancer free five years later And as we were repairing the relationship, my dad passed away suddenly.

[00:07:01] Oh. And, I'm very thankful that one of the ground rules I set in helping rebuild this relationship was the last thing I would tell my parents was I love you. And I would mean it. As angry or upset as I might have been with them that day, I would always pause to say I love you. Because if that was the last thing they heard me say, I would be okay with that. It was the last three words both my mom and my dad heard me say to them before they passed. But my dad passed away suddenly, and it was one of those moments where six months after my dad was gone, my parents were married for 55 years, and my mom looked at me, and at the time she was in her late 70s, and she looked at me and she goes, I don't know how you do it.

[00:07:52] And I go, do what? And she goes, being alone. Because being alone sucks. Yeah. And it was that moment, Bob, where you have that connection with a loved one, right? And I said to her, I go, Ma, you and dad were together for 55 years. I go, look, I get it. You don't approve. I get it. I go, look, I go, for 55 years, was your relationship based solely on sex?

[00:08:23] And she's no. And I go, okay. It was companionship. It was a partnership. I go, why am I not entitled to the same thing as you and dad have? I go, I don't want to go through this world alone. And she looked at me at that point and she goes, I don't approve, but I'll try to understand. And that accelerated a lot of healing for us.

[00:08:49] And then my mom passed away seven years after that. And I'm very thankful that she got to meet my now husband. And and understood him as an important part of my life. Oh, 

[00:09:00] Bob Gatty: good. But you know what? You said that it took you 18 years, I think you said. Yes. To come out. Why did it take you so long?

[00:09:13] John Neral: I was raised in a staunch Catholic household. I didn't want to upset my parents. 

[00:09:17] Bob Gatty: I got that. I understand. Yeah, sure. Yeah. 

[00:09:21] John Neral: It took me that long because there was a part of me that just didn't want to believe it was true. Like you keep, I remember I would go to bed at night and I would pray to God and be like, God, make me straight.

[00:09:34] And all of a sudden you have that feeling or that thought and you're like, why is that there? And I had dated women. It was something it did because that was the social norm. Sure. Was what, you were supposed to do kind of thing. Sure. But I remember I remember, being out on a date with a woman and dropping her off at home and getting in the car and crying all the way home because it just felt all it just didn't feel right.

[00:10:04] Okay. And so then you get to that point where you're like, okay, this is who I am. And then, okay, my journey was that I thought, okay, I'm just not going to act on it. I'm not going to do anything about it. That gets lonely pretty quick. I'm like, that's not the life I want to have. My journey was, it took me 18 years.

[00:10:23] It took me 16 until I actually came out and then eight, it was another two years after that before I actually said something to them. 

[00:10:32] Bob Gatty: Okay, so it was two years you were out, you were living the life that you were living, and then two years later you told them, so that two years must have been tough for you.

[00:10:46] John Neral: It was, and in a lot of ways I was very closeted, because I was starting my teaching career, I was working for a public school system, I was non tenured. It was a district where I later on came to learn that after my first year of teaching, or as my first year of teaching was ended the PTA, Parent Teacher Association, held a meeting because they wanted to have me removed because they thought I was gay.

[00:11:21] Okay. And in all actuality, that could have happened as a non tenured teacher. You can be let go for any reason, you don't have to give you a cause. And there was a mother who was on the board of the PTA. I was teaching her daughter. And she stood up and she said, Look, for the first time, my daughter understands and likes math.

[00:11:48] I don't care what this guy's personal life is. You're not going to do anything to sabotage this guy's career. He never talks about his personal life in the classroom. Leave him alone. That woman saved my career. 

[00:12:01] Bob Gatty: Wow. Wow. Wow. 

[00:12:04] John Neral: And that was because, and we're talking mid to late 90s. We're talking like Will and Grace had just come on TV.

[00:12:12] Yeah. She was advocating for me when she didn't have to. 

[00:12:17] She showed up for me. Absolutely. She showed up for me. Yeah. 

[00:12:22] Bob Gatty: Yeah. All right. So let's talk a little bit about going forward. You were a local union leader. What union was that? And tell us about that. And what did that teach you about yourself?

[00:12:36] John Neral: Oh, so I, I was in a co president or vice president role of a local education association for 10 years. Okay. So what that meant was we had about 170 member association that comprised mostly of Teachers and administrative professionals. Everything was around holding up the collective bargaining agreement, having conversations with administration, ensuring that the agreement was being honored.

[00:13:06] It meant leading two rounds of contract negotiations. We were negotiating a 25 plus million dollar budget. And ensuring that we got a fair and just contract, which is very interesting right now as we're seeing the UAW striking and the writers striking. So it brings part of that back to me and that part of my life.

[00:13:29] Bob here's what I learned. The first thing that I learned was that I learned things about my colleagues I wish I never knew. Oh yeah, like what? I can't get into those things specifically because I don't want to violate that relationship, but I'll just say people behaving badly. Okay. Violating contracts not being professional in certain things.

[00:13:55] And so while I love the advocacy part of being a union leader, there were some difficult conversations that needed to be had, especially when you're defending somebody who you do that because it's your job, but you don't necessarily agree or support what they did. Okay. I learned how to have more intentional conversations with administrators.

[00:14:21] And to be very firm in my conversations about what we needed to uphold as part of the union, especially when it came to contract negotiations. We had some really heated discussions at the table and going toe to toe with the board of ed and the district attorney and everything. You find your voice.

[00:14:41] You, you find your voice to show up and stand up for what is right in that regard. Those were two of the biggest things that I learned from doing that job. 

[00:14:51] Bob Gatty: Now in your book, you you write about six strategies that you recommend to people for quote showing up. Talk about those strategies, would you please?

[00:15:03] John Neral: The S stands for setting ground rules. The H is for having intentional conversations. The O is own where you are, the W is to welcome new opportunities, the U is use your genius, the P is protecting and promoting your brand. When I coach my clients on these six specific strategies, we start pretty much where the O is.

[00:15:28] They have to own where they are, where are they at in their career, their leadership journey, and how do they welcome new opportunities for what's next for them in their career. They're U is they're using their genius, it's that thing that they're exceptional at. We say here's the thing as to why you're the go to person within your organization, or why are you recognized for this particular thing?

[00:15:53] So that genius is what allows them to show up and add value every single day. And the P protecting and promoting their brand is understanding what people are saying about them when they're not in the room to quote Jeff Bezos, but understanding that their brand and their reputation must be aligned in order to ensure success for them in their professional career, setting ground rules or the S is about the things that they value and how they show up on a daily basis, especially when they're leading their teams or working with their clients, how they honor those values based on those ground rules every single day.

[00:16:35] And the H for having intentional conversations is to always move a relationship forward. Bob, when we move a relationship forward, it doesn't mean that we always get resolution that everybody's happy about. Moving a relationship forward means we have clarity about where we are in that moment. All six of those strategies are things that I implemented in my career because of where I went through on my own personal journey of coming out.

[00:17:06] Everything from setting ground rules, having intentional conversations with my folks, right on through protecting and promoting my brand. My family said some pretty horrible things about me and what they thought I was doing. Sure. You don't get, no. That was one of those things in the ground rules where I was like, look, you can disagree, you don't abuse.

[00:17:27] So that's, when I think about showing up and how I coach my clients, I want show up to be defined in these six strategies that give people context for how they move about their life and career every single day. 

[00:17:41] Bob Gatty: So do you, how is this received by your clients and how can they benefit from these six strategies?

[00:17:49] John Neral: A lot of the people I work with feel very stuck in their career. And we define, they define stuck as there's no place for them to move up on the org chart, or they feel stuck about trying to move out because they're juggling their careers and their lives all at the same time. Yeah. The show up strategies are received particularly well because it gives them a framework.

[00:18:13] So we typically start with the O. Where are you at? What are the new opportunities in front of you? What's the thing you're exceptionally good at that we call their genius? And when we start coaching through that genius and what I call a unique professional value statement They start getting clarity about What they're really good at and defining whether or not they want to continue doing that work So they might have a particular skill where they think they're really great at managing people, but they don't have managerial experience.

[00:18:49] So how do we create an opportunity for them to get that experience? Okay, the show up six strategies give them a framework for navigating through their career transition. And I can honestly say it has always received very well. 

[00:19:05] Bob Gatty: Excellent. Now, my show is Lean to the Left. It's called Lean to the Left.

[00:19:13] It's called that for a reason. Because I lean to the left. Yes. And and I feel like it's important to talk about some of the issues that we face today in this country. So what does showing up mean for people who tend to lean to the left politically, especially with all of the divisiveness that is prevalent today in the society that we live in? 

[00:19:40] John Neral: I so appreciate that question because the way I think about showing up is to not be silent. I'm not saying it's about being militant, but in some ways, I think there are ways we can be very emphatic. about what's important. Showing up means going out to vote.

[00:20:03] Showing up means standing up for basic civil rights that have been taken away or compromised in some way. The divisiveness that we're seeing right now, more so than ever, I feel, sets us back 50, 60 years, decades of progress. And showing up is to ensure that those basic civil rights are honored and they're protected.

[00:20:34] And so when I think about what it means to show up, absolutely, I will always vote I will have conversations with people not who are as necessarily far on the left, but to maybe try to understand a little more where they're coming from. And see if there is an avenue to have an intentional conversation to move that relationship forward.

[00:21:00] I will tell you that I'm not particularly happy with a lot of things that are going on in our Congress right now, especially as we're looking at another government shutdown. Very dear friends that work across multiple government agencies, and I don't want to see them be out of work for any particular reason.

[00:21:17] It's that kind of thing where, you know, showing up. Do your job well. Do it to protect people and the necessary civil rights that are there and most needed as a bedrock and foundation of this country. 

[00:21:34] Bob Gatty: They're screwing around with the possible government shutdown, that's for sure.

[00:21:38] But beyond that, in states all across this country, Legislatures led by Republicans are trying to infringe on the rights of people, including the LGBTQ plus community. Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about that, John. How do you feel about that? What are some of the important things that are happening and what do you think people should do about it?

[00:22:01] John Neral: So the first thing, Bob, that I would say is that we need to make sure that people are protected under the law that when they go to work, that is a safe space for them. They are free from discrimination, harassment whether it be because they're a lesbian or a gay professional, they're transgendered. If they choose a particular inclusive pronoun, that should be respected.

[00:22:31] Respect doesn't have to mean you agree. Respect means that, look, I will honor this request in this environment because that is what creates safety. I will share this story with you because my husband and I recently got back from a cruise to Alaska. Okay. And it was one of our bucket trip lists. We had planned to go in 2020 and of course we know the whole world got upended.

[00:22:57] We're sitting at dinner one night and there's a table of four next to us, two men and two women. They were a little older than us. I'm going to guess they were in their seventies and they were having this heated conversation but I didn't pick up on what exactly they were talking about. The conversation finished and they were getting ready to leave.

[00:23:18] One of the women stood up and came over to the table and she said, Gentlemen, I hope we didn't offend you. And I said, About what? She said we were having a very heated discussion because our granddaughter recently got engaged. And she's engaged to a woman who is transitioning. And we can't make heads or tails out of it.

[00:23:42] And I was trying to look at her, right? And she says to me, she goes, I was going to tag you both in for your thoughts on this and I looked at her and I said, I wouldn't even know where to begin. And I said, cause I don't know that situation. And I, and after, and she's, we saw them later on in the cruise and they didn't bring it up or anything, but as a gay man who has been very comfortable in his male identity, I have no context of what it must be like for somebody who is transgendered to realize that they're born in the wrong body. I know people who are transgendered. I respect them. I, what I'm saying is that I don't understand their walk, but I do believe that their rights must be protected. And so those are some of the things I think we're seeing a huge thing right now, especially with our transgender community, that it's one of those things where this is being weaponized or politicized in some way.

[00:24:50] I, I don't understand that experience, but I do believe in fighting for their rights. 

[00:24:56] Bob Gatty: I think part of the, I don't know, maybe I'm cutting him too much slack here, but I think a lot of these Republican nutcases that are heading for these kinds of restrictive legislative edicts, largely, I think they don't understand what's going on in these people's lives.

[00:25:19] And I think beyond that, I don't think they really give a shit. 

[00:25:23] John Neral: I would agree. I would agree, because there's a part of it where they're holding up their agenda, be it religious or otherwise that they believe their way is the only way. 

[00:25:37] Bob Gatty: Exactly. And it's not just on this topic, but on almost every Say that again?

[00:25:44] It's their way or the highway, regardless of what the issue is. It just drives me crazy.

[00:25:50] John Neral: It's ironic to me in that we just had an incident recently where Lauren Bobert was at a production of Beetlejuice in Denver and got escorted out because she and the man she was with were behaving inappropriately, and she was vaping during a performance. And then she has the audacity 

[00:26:12] Bob Gatty: Behaving inappropriately, exactly what were they doing? 

[00:26:16] John Neral: They were groping each other in the private parts. Yes. 

[00:26:19] Bob Gatty: In the middle of a theater, correct? 

[00:26:22] John Neral: In a theater, right? And and so then she walks out.

[00:26:25] She's don't allegedly, according to the report don't you know who I am? Yeah. And you shouldn't be doing that. And so it's we have one set of rules for ourselves. But then there's another set of roles for everybody else, and I take huge issue with that 'cause absolutely not.

[00:26:41] Absolutely. That just drives me nuts. . 

[00:26:44] Bob Gatty: Yeah. Okay. John, you got anything else you wanna talk about? 

[00:26:47] John Neral: Bob I will say this. And in keeping in line with the theme of your show, the next year and two months. Is going to be pivotal. It's going to be very pivotal in terms of where we're headed and what rights are going to be protected and what rights are going to be in jeopardy and it is more important than ever in my opinion that we make sure we honor our right to go out and vote and to do so and get informed.

[00:27:19] Bob Gatty: Absolutely. And it's going to get tougher, too, because this coming election is probably going to be like none other that we've ever seen. We're going to have one candidate, likely one candidate, could well be on his way to frickin jail. And should be. The other candidate Joe Biden is what, 80 something and under attack for his age, which is just fricking wrong.

[00:27:46] And the Democrats, I saw a survey the other day that, that I don't know, 60 some percent of Democratic voters who were surveyed would like to see somebody other than Joe, just because of his age, largely. And I just think that is wrong. But what is going to happen? Let's just say that the, at least one of these courts finds Trump guilty and sentence him to jail.

[00:28:14] What's going to happen in this country then? And if that happens around election time, I shudder to think what that's going to mean. 

[00:28:23] John Neral: You almost think we're headed for another civil war.

[00:28:25] Bob Gatty: I know. It's all because 

[00:28:29] John Neral: Yeah, it saddens me that this is where we're at 'cause we're better than this.

[00:28:38] Yeah. Yeah. Look you know my opinion, my thoughts and everything. I'm gonna lean to the left and you know where I'm gonna vote. That's just where it's gonna be. Yeah. But do I wish that there were more prominent younger. people in both parties that were showing up and stepping up to lead?

[00:29:03] Yes, I do. Because what are our options after these two? 

[00:29:07] Bob Gatty: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:29:08] John Neral: The pool doesn't look great. 

[00:29:10] Bob Gatty: No, it doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't.

[00:29:12] John Neral: It doesn't look great. And it's amazing that you think, oh my gosh, this is where we are. And both people, both candidates have approached this as a way that they were going to bridge the divide.

[00:29:30] And they haven't, who's going to be the one that's going to step in and at least find some kind of decorum and less divisiveness than what we have now. I don't have an answer for that. I wish I did, but I don't. 

[00:29:45] Bob Gatty: I know, it's tough. All right. You've got a couple of books. We talked about one of them.

[00:29:51] Where can people find them? 

[00:29:53] John Neral: They can find them on Amazon. They're readily available. Show up six strategies to lead a more energetic and impactful career and your mid career GPS for steps to figuring out what's next. They're great books for anybody who is in a state of career transition and looking for a resource to help them.

[00:30:11] Bob Gatty: Boy, I know you'd say that because you wrote them.

[00:30:14] John Neral: I'm proud of them. I like them. They've helped a lot of people, which has been nice. Yeah. 

[00:30:19] Bob Gatty: That's great. I really am pleased for you that your books are successful and that your podcast is also and I'm sure your consulting practice, your coaching practices is doing very well. I enjoyed talking to you, my friend.

[00:30:36] John Neral: I enjoyed talking to you as well, my friend. Thank you so very much for the work that you do. I appreciate the opportunity to share my story and and have a few laughs. And and it was great. So thank you so very much.