John Pabon: No Bullshit Plan for Saving the Planet - 12:6:22, 4.53 PM

Show Transcript

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[bob_gatty]: let's start off just tell me what

in the hell you mean what does the

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[bob_gatty]: term sustainability real man

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[john_pabon_]: it's a great starting point because i

think a lot of people most people have

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[john_pabon_]: a lot of different opinion about what

it means if i ask five people to

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[john_pabon_]: define sustainability i'm probably going to get

a hundred different answers

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: so for me sustainability is so much

more than just the environmental side

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: of things i think people get caught

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: up the green side but they forget

that sustainability really is an umbrella term so

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[john_pabon_]: we're talking

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[bob_gatty]: m

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[john_pabon_]: anything related to certainly the environment that's

a big part of it but

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[bob_gatty]: hm

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[john_pabon_]: there's the social aspect of things so

that's huge

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: rights labor rights philanthropy and charity and

there's

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[bob_gatty]: h

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[john_pabon_]: also the government side of things so

how

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: businesses and government sort of monitor all

this and make sure that in a transparent

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[john_pabon_]: way things are actually of vigan going

forward so it's much more than just hugging

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[john_pabon_]: the trees and saving the polar bears

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[bob_gatty]: why is it important

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[john_pabon_]: a that's

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[bob_gatty]: that's

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[john_pabon_]: really it kind of depends for me

sustainability is important because i sort of see

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[john_pabon_]: the writing on the wall in terms

of not so much the again the environmental

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[john_pabon_]: side that's an important part of it

it's not really my focus area

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: more from the for me the private

sector side is kind of what i focus

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[john_pabon_]: on so how businesses can

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[bob_gatty]: yea

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[john_pabon_]: really not just future prove themselves

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: but also become more competitive using sustainability

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[bob_gatty]: i

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[john_pabon_]: as a way to differentiate themselves but

also do good by the world so really

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[bob_gatty]: he had

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[john_pabon_]: marring that idea of of quasi capitalism

i suppose but in a good way with

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[john_pabon_]: sustainability and building a better future

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[bob_gatty]: okay i like that now what would

you say the stain of global sustainability is

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[bob_gatty]: today

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[john_pabon_]: a mess to

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: put it quite frankly

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: we've been in this we've been doing

this for at least sixty seventy years now

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[john_pabon_]: really concertedly you know you had sort

of rachel carson in the sixties her very

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[john_pabon_]: famous book silent spring which kind of

kicked off the modern environmental movement

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[bob_gatty]: uh

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[john_pabon_]: you have the foundation of

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[bob_gatty]: h

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[john_pabon_]: earth

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: day in the seventies and then the

evolution of sort

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[bob_gatty]: yes

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[john_pabon_]: of the eighties which was kind of

this

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[bob_gatty]: that

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[john_pabon_]: this period of real greed and conglomeration

within business and that's when you started to

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[john_pabon_]: see

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[bob_gatty]: m

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[john_pabon_]: really the sort of capitalization of sustainability

so en geos kind of turning into these

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[john_pabon_]: many

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: operations and adopting those practices

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[bob_gatty]: yeah yeah

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[john_pabon_]: the likes of the oil industry and

other highly polluting industries just kind of doing

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: whatever they wanted

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: and over the past ten fifteen maybe

twenty you're starting to see corporations really wake

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[john_pabon_]: up

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[bob_gatty]: ah

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[john_pabon_]: and saying no no no we need

to do we need to do better so

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[john_pabon_]: it's it's evolved quite a bit so

corporation s really the private sector is what's

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[john_pabon_]: leading the change although

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[bob_gatty]: well

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[john_pabon_]: i'm sure a lot of active south

there would like to think that it's the

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[john_pabon_]: activist and people power i think we're

well beyond that at this stage my my

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[john_pabon_]: big push is to have the private

sect to do it because they have the

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[john_pabon_]: capital that people do not and be

have the willingness that governments

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: do not so they're the ones really

pushing governments at this stage with the exception

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[john_pabon_]: of maybe

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: a handful around the world are not

really doing

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[bob_gatty]: m

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[john_pabon_]: as much as they probably should be

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[bob_gatty]: you know when you say that it

you know i have to i have to

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[bob_gatty]: agree that

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[john_pabon_]: oh

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[bob_gatty]: that the business world

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[john_pabon_]: just

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[bob_gatty]: certainly has the resources

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[john_pabon_]: we

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[bob_gatty]: and should have the response should should

bear the responsibility for

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[john_pabon_]: m

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[bob_gatty]: getting us out of this environmental mess

that we

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[john_pabon_]: oh

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[bob_gatty]: seem to be being but nevertheless i

don't know that i want to dismiss the

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[bob_gatty]: important so people power you're saying

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[john_pabon_]: ah

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[bob_gatty]: that doesn't really work though and

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[john_pabon_]: sorry i qualified it a bit i

suppose it works

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: at a certain level i think the

undue reliance on it as if we're going

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[john_pabon_]: to be able to solve everything just

by

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[bob_gatty]: hm

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[john_pabon_]: having activists pushing pushing the envelope is

not so much we need to have a

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[john_pabon_]: much more nuance approach so it can't

just be corporations are bad don't listen to

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[john_pabon_]: him i think it's more about how

to how do we capitalize on what they're

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[john_pabon_]: doing and push them forward while

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[bob_gatty]: a

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[john_pabon_]: at the same time empowering the activists

to to keep their message as loud and

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[john_pabon_]: in people's spaces as possible

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[bob_gatty]: okay so what would you say the

biggest myths are myths are

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[john_pabon_]: yeh

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[bob_gatty]: when it comes to building a more

sustainable future

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[john_pabon_]: yeah also a very very good question

so that the biggest one i think we

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[john_pabon_]: touched on a bit already

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: is that sustainability has just to do

with environmentalism so i think

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[bob_gatty]: right

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[john_pabon_]: that's a big one that's that's a

constant you're with sort of public perception around

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[bob_gatty]: hm

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[john_pabon_]: things and i think

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: because of that you're you're sort of

getting into this place

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: where a lot of people don't quite

understand what they're supposed to do and that's

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[john_pabon_]: the second biggest myth is is this

this doom ism if you have to sort

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[john_pabon_]: of term it one way so if

if the world is going to hell in

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[john_pabon_]: a hand basket you know i'm one

of eight billion people what am i supposed

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[john_pabon_]: to do about all that

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[bob_gatty]: right

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[john_pabon_]: i get overwhelmed i don't do anything

at all so this idea that that we're

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[john_pabon_]: doomed that the die is cast i

think is the second biggest smith the die

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[john_pabon_]: is not cast there is plenty of

time for change we are going to go

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[john_pabon_]: through massive transition pure it's it's probably

not going to be the best time in

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[john_pabon_]: history but that doesn't mean that we

can just put our hands up and say

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[john_pabon_]: oh well we're doomed so that that

idea of doom ism is certainly one of

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[john_pabon_]: the second biggest smiths and i think

a third big myth is is that you

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[john_pabon_]: can't marry

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: like we talked about a second ago

you can't marry money and sustain ability i

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[john_pabon_]: think putting the two together and talking

about them

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[bob_gatty]: ye

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[john_pabon_]: as one is really the the best

way forward so it's not money is not

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[john_pabon_]: a dirty word talking about corporations doing

good is not not a dirty thing

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: to think about i think putting them

together is really really a good thing

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[bob_gatty]: i would have to agree with that

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[john_pabon_]: oh

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[bob_gatty]: now is that what fulcrum strategic advisors

is all about

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[john_pabon_]: that's right so i noticed a gap

in the market really around the what we

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[john_pabon_]: call the g of sustainability so the

governance side of things so

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[bob_gatty]: hm

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[john_pabon_]: the transparency of the report in the

really operational side of sustainability so how corporations

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[john_pabon_]: go about doing what they do so

that's what we focus on we focus on

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: helping companies identify what is most materia

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: to their business so what they should

be focusing on so instead of trying to

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[john_pabon_]: do a hundred different things and accomplishing

nothing they focus a bit more and then

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[john_pabon_]: how do they report that and communicate

that out to the world i'm a big

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[john_pabon_]: proponent of companies real as long as

they're not

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: green washing really

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: talking about the great things they're doing

i think we don't companies don't do enough

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[john_pabon_]: of that so as more and more

companies are a bit more vocal i think

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[john_pabon_]: more companies

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: will then join in and it will

be sort of this virtuous cycle

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[bob_gatty]: okay

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[bob_gatty]: you know you made a i want

to talk about green washing in a minute

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[bob_gatty]: but you made a comment that i

saw that we should learn from china about

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[bob_gatty]: sustainability and that really kind of took

me back

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[john_pabon_]: yeah

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[bob_gatty]: because you know the common the common

thought is that they're the bad guys in

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[bob_gatty]: this whole thing um and

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[john_pabon_]: yeah

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[bob_gatty]: i have to i have to think

about what

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[john_pabon_]: i

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[bob_gatty]: hershel walker said i bound the us

needing and it's i don't know what he

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[bob_gatty]: says so send our clean old air

over there and then we'll

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[john_pabon_]: that's

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[bob_gatty]: get there

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[john_pabon_]: that's what he said

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[bob_gatty]: then we'll get their dirty air or

something on know

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[john_pabon_]: they're sending their dirty air to america

something along those lines yeah

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[bob_gatty]: yeah right right right okay so anyway

so china is the bad guy and this

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[bob_gatty]: whole thing

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[john_pabon_]: yeah

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[bob_gatty]: tell me why china isn't the bad

guy and what we can learn from china

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: so i lived and worked in shanghai

for for a decade so it's not just

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[john_pabon_]: me pouting nonsense i've seen first hand

the massive progress that china

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: has made and i'll qualify it a

bit because obviously china is not perfect there

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[john_pabon_]: is so much work still to be

done but at the same

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[bob_gatty]: a

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[john_pabon_]: time it's like

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

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[john_pabon_]: massive battleship moving through the

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[bob_gatty]: oh

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[john_pabon_]: water it's going to take a minute

to stop it and turn it around so

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[bob_gatty]: oh

254

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[john_pabon_]: you got to give him a bit

of time that's fine

255

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[bob_gatty]: h

256

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[john_pabon_]: but i think what we can learn

from china

257

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[bob_gatty]: h

258

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[john_pabon_]: when it comes to sustain ability is

sort of the innovations around investment

259

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

260

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[john_pabon_]: in green technology for example china up

until i'm talking pretcovid now and i know

261

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[john_pabon_]: things have changed a bit since covid

because

262

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[bob_gatty]: sure

263

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[john_pabon_]: the world's been a bit distracted but

precovid china was investing more every

264

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[bob_gatty]: every

265

00:10:44,531 --> 00:10:50,221

[john_pabon_]: year in green technology and innovation than

the entire eu china was also because they

266

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[john_pabon_]: have to they had to push this

innovation they had find a way to move

267

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[john_pabon_]: from being the world's factory to being

sort of a

268

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[bob_gatty]: m

269

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[john_pabon_]: service provider which is what they wanted

to be what they want to be still

270

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[john_pabon_]: so to do that

271

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[bob_gatty]: that

272

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[john_pabon_]: they really embrace sustainability they said okay

we need to green our

273

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[bob_gatty]: art

274

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[john_pabon_]: supply chains

275

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[bob_gatty]: yeah

276

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[john_pabon_]: we need to green our manufacturing sector

we need to stop polluting because we understand

277

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[john_pabon_]: that it's not good for the people

278

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[bob_gatty]: oh

279

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[john_pabon_]: and if there's one thing the party

is worried about

280

00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:17,670

[bob_gatty]: oh

281

00:11:17,638 --> 00:11:19,781

[john_pabon_]: it's it's people being antagonized by

282

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[bob_gatty]: i

283

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[john_pabon_]: things not going the way they want

them to so it has to be right

284

00:11:22,306 --> 00:11:23,447

[john_pabon_]: by the people but

285

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[bob_gatty]: oh

286

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[john_pabon_]: it's just not a sustainable way forward

so they looked at it as a way

287

00:11:28,336 --> 00:11:33,885

[john_pabon_]: differentiate themselves into really especially as trump

took power in twenty sixteen to take that

288

00:11:34,065 --> 00:11:37,952

[john_pabon_]: leadership position away from the united states

when it came to sustainability and sort of

289

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[john_pabon_]: run with it and

290

00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:39,621

[bob_gatty]: and

291

00:11:39,715 --> 00:11:43,321

[john_pabon_]: and that's what they up until up

until very recently obviously the economy is slowing

292

00:11:43,361 --> 00:11:47,688

[john_pabon_]: down there's there's big protest happening now

in china over the past week so

293

00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:47,993

[bob_gatty]: oh

294

00:11:47,788 --> 00:11:52,817

[john_pabon_]: things are a little bit different but

in terms of tech innovation and invest that's

295

00:11:52,877 --> 00:11:54,583

[john_pabon_]: really where you're seeing things and

296

00:11:54,541 --> 00:11:54,642

[bob_gatty]: ah

297

00:11:55,416 --> 00:11:59,664

[john_pabon_]: if we're going to talk about people

power also just having at an individual level

298

00:11:59,784 --> 00:12:03,371

[john_pabon_]: social entrepreneurship from regular focus on the

street

299

00:12:03,220 --> 00:12:03,441

[bob_gatty]: may

300

00:12:03,552 --> 00:12:06,797

[john_pabon_]: you had a lot more i would

say up skilling

301

00:12:06,513 --> 00:12:06,615

[bob_gatty]: ah

302

00:12:06,958 --> 00:12:10,604

[john_pabon_]: in terms of you know this is

what sustainability means to me and i think

303

00:12:10,664 --> 00:12:12,787

[john_pabon_]: the reason for that is because

304

00:12:12,551 --> 00:12:12,631

[bob_gatty]: ah

305

00:12:12,868 --> 00:12:18,337

[john_pabon_]: in china things like air pollution water

pollution cancers et cetera it visible it's in

306

00:12:18,377 --> 00:12:22,524

[john_pabon_]: your face because it's happening to you

so that's also what pushed a massive

307

00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,610

[bob_gatty]: yeah

308

00:12:22,584 --> 00:12:25,989

[john_pabon_]: step change whereas in places like the

u s in the u or even australia

309

00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:26,501

[bob_gatty]: oh

310

00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:30,557

[john_pabon_]: we don't see those things we sort

of assume everything is okay when kind

311

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[bob_gatty]: oh

312

00:12:30,617 --> 00:12:34,363

[john_pabon_]: of scratching under the surface especially in

a place like australia think things are not

313

00:12:34,444 --> 00:12:38,691

[john_pabon_]: okay so none of that is to

say that china is perfect i still think

314

00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:42,277

[john_pabon_]: that there are a lot of lessons

if people would just sort of look to

315

00:12:42,337 --> 00:12:45,824

[john_pabon_]: china and understand a bit of what's

going on they can definitely learn a few

316

00:12:45,884 --> 00:12:46,124

[john_pabon_]: things

317

00:12:46,471 --> 00:12:48,053

[bob_gatty]: what about you say

318

00:12:51,090 --> 00:12:54,686

[bob_gatty]: australia you said there was what do

you mean

319

00:12:55,698 --> 00:12:58,342

[john_pabon_]: australia is not as clean and green

as they would like to pretend to be

320

00:12:58,750 --> 00:12:58,851

[bob_gatty]: oh

321

00:12:58,943 --> 00:12:59,203

[john_pabon_]: because

322

00:12:59,192 --> 00:12:59,433

[bob_gatty]: really

323

00:12:59,304 --> 00:13:03,831

[john_pabon_]: australia australia's economy is entirely built on

digging things out of the ground so

324

00:13:04,162 --> 00:13:04,423

[bob_gatty]: okay

325

00:13:04,733 --> 00:13:05,935

[john_pabon_]: whether that's oil

326

00:13:05,850 --> 00:13:06,073

[bob_gatty]: oh

327

00:13:06,255 --> 00:13:11,043

[john_pabon_]: or gold mining anything like that so

those are highly pouting industries but those

328

00:13:11,074 --> 00:13:11,700

[bob_gatty]: hm

329

00:13:11,163 --> 00:13:14,429

[john_pabon_]: are sort of the things that make

the economic miracle happen

330

00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:14,612

[bob_gatty]: oh

331

00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:22,102

[john_pabon_]: australia has been able to sort of

get through recessions the global financial crisis without

332

00:13:22,342 --> 00:13:25,647

[john_pabon_]: any issues at all they call it

the lucky country here because they haven't had

333

00:13:25,688 --> 00:13:31,056

[john_pabon_]: to experience any of those financial difficulties

because the highly polluting industry that prop up

334

00:13:31,096 --> 00:13:36,142

[john_pabon_]: the economy are there and there sort

of their held as kind of patron saints

335

00:13:36,202 --> 00:13:41,267

[john_pabon_]: of the country but it's also a

dirty little secret that nobody talks about oh

336

00:13:41,122 --> 00:13:44,868

[bob_gatty]: how nice so let's

337

00:13:44,856 --> 00:13:45,096

[john_pabon_]: yes

338

00:13:44,928 --> 00:13:49,817

[bob_gatty]: get back a little bit to the

private sector specifically under some things that you

339

00:13:49,877 --> 00:13:52,843

[bob_gatty]: think that the private actors should be

doing that

340

00:13:52,797 --> 00:13:52,818

[john_pabon_]: i

341

00:13:53,304 --> 00:13:57,274

[bob_gatty]: they're not doing what are some of

the good things that they are doing that

342

00:13:57,635 --> 00:13:58,457

[bob_gatty]: we can talk about

343

00:14:00,208 --> 00:14:04,155

[john_pabon_]: the biggest thing that i see with

the private sector where they sort of mess

344

00:14:04,235 --> 00:14:07,300

[john_pabon_]: up a bit or don't get their

foundations right

345

00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:07,891

[bob_gatty]: oh

346

00:14:07,861 --> 00:14:11,226

[john_pabon_]: is like we talked about a second

ago not knowing what they doing

347

00:14:11,583 --> 00:14:11,784

[bob_gatty]: okay

348

00:14:11,787 --> 00:14:13,250

[john_pabon_]: they try to do a bunch of

stuff

349

00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:14,022

[bob_gatty]: ah

350

00:14:13,991 --> 00:14:18,118

[john_pabon_]: and they end up doing nothing nothing

at all so really focusing on two or

351

00:14:18,258 --> 00:14:18,498

[john_pabon_]: three

352

00:14:18,641 --> 00:14:19,710

[bob_gatty]: yeah

353

00:14:18,959 --> 00:14:22,044

[john_pabon_]: issues that are most material to your

business that makes financial sense

354

00:14:22,415 --> 00:14:22,435

[bob_gatty]: i

355

00:14:22,786 --> 00:14:26,812

[john_pabon_]: you start using the language of business

like talking about material issues so that

356

00:14:26,674 --> 00:14:26,715

[bob_gatty]: h

357

00:14:26,892 --> 00:14:27,914

[john_pabon_]: starts to get the people

358

00:14:27,819 --> 00:14:27,840

[bob_gatty]: m

359

00:14:28,034 --> 00:14:31,500

[john_pabon_]: in the suite involved or at least

get their ears perked up a bit

360

00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,062

[bob_gatty]: uh

361

00:14:31,801 --> 00:14:35,527

[john_pabon_]: and then it doesn't seem like so

much of a lift if you're focusing on

362

00:14:35,847 --> 00:14:37,310

[john_pabon_]: one two three issues that your

363

00:14:37,379 --> 00:14:37,500

[bob_gatty]: yeah

364

00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:41,817

[john_pabon_]: stake holders are actually asking you to

focus on versus saying okay i need to

365

00:14:41,857 --> 00:14:45,043

[john_pabon_]: do all these things plus i need

to save the pengalins in china like what

366

00:14:45,063 --> 00:14:48,191

[john_pabon_]: does that have to do with my

business so ay focusing instead of trying to

367

00:14:48,251 --> 00:14:50,700

[john_pabon_]: do it all is a great way

forward

368

00:14:51,341 --> 00:14:51,543

[bob_gatty]: yeah

369

00:14:51,463 --> 00:14:54,659

[john_pabon_]: and with business as well really being

strategic

370

00:14:54,492 --> 00:14:54,616

[bob_gatty]: oh

371

00:14:54,739 --> 00:14:58,626

[john_pabon_]: about how they go about things particularly

around philanthropy and you

372

00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:58,760

[bob_gatty]: yeah

373

00:14:58,706 --> 00:15:02,773

[john_pabon_]: see a lot of companies typically when

they start out with sustainability they do a

374

00:15:02,873 --> 00:15:03,714

[john_pabon_]: charity fun run

375

00:15:03,929 --> 00:15:04,110

[bob_gatty]: yeah

376

00:15:04,075 --> 00:15:04,596

[john_pabon_]: or they'll

377

00:15:04,502 --> 00:15:04,584

[bob_gatty]: ah

378

00:15:04,676 --> 00:15:05,978

[john_pabon_]: sign a check to a philanthropy

379

00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,330

[bob_gatty]: oh

380

00:15:06,038 --> 00:15:09,945

[john_pabon_]: or something like that but it nine

times out of ten doesn't

381

00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:10,131

[bob_gatty]: how

382

00:15:10,145 --> 00:15:12,489

[john_pabon_]: really have anything to do with the

business it's just

383

00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:12,451

[bob_gatty]: yeah

384

00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:14,292

[john_pabon_]: somebody's passion project

385

00:15:14,411 --> 00:15:14,573

[bob_gatty]: yeah

386

00:15:15,053 --> 00:15:18,279

[john_pabon_]: you can look at that more strategic

and say if you're for example in the

387

00:15:18,299 --> 00:15:19,220

[john_pabon_]: farmesuitical industry

388

00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:20,421

[bob_gatty]: yeah

389

00:15:20,342 --> 00:15:22,265

[john_pabon_]: and i often use the example

390

00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:22,209

[bob_gatty]: yeah

391

00:15:22,345 --> 00:15:24,870

[john_pabon_]: of baerfarmesuticales farmesuticales does a lot

392

00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:25,102

[bob_gatty]: oh

393

00:15:24,930 --> 00:15:27,374

[john_pabon_]: of around animal medicines and husbandry

394

00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:28,440

[bob_gatty]: yeah

395

00:15:28,275 --> 00:15:31,120

[john_pabon_]: and it's quite an interesting area it's

not an area where there's a huge amount

396

00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,367

[john_pabon_]: of investment in the philanthropic side but

there probably should be so where they focus

397

00:15:35,447 --> 00:15:41,037

[john_pabon_]: their philanthropic efforts is really in that

area of of charity and the rational

398

00:15:41,022 --> 00:15:41,063

[bob_gatty]: a

399

00:15:41,077 --> 00:15:44,683

[john_pabon_]: behind that is its strategic to the

business it relates to the business if you're

400

00:15:44,703 --> 00:15:48,509

[john_pabon_]: looking for volunteers within the company you're

probably going to get more because people are

401

00:15:48,529 --> 00:15:48,790

[john_pabon_]: actually

402

00:15:48,791 --> 00:15:48,811

[bob_gatty]: m

403

00:15:49,010 --> 00:15:50,693

[john_pabon_]: passionate about that area so

404

00:15:50,805 --> 00:15:51,390

[bob_gatty]: hm

405

00:15:50,813 --> 00:15:52,596

[john_pabon_]: just looking at sustainability less

406

00:15:52,452 --> 00:15:52,635

[bob_gatty]: yes

407

00:15:52,897 --> 00:15:57,474

[john_pabon_]: as do whatever you want and more

as a strategic business imperative

408

00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:06,063

[bob_gatty]: yeah so i presume that's kind of

what fulcrum does with your clients you try

409

00:16:06,163 --> 00:16:09,288

[bob_gatty]: to walk them through that stratum scenario

410

00:16:09,367 --> 00:16:09,528

[john_pabon_]: that's

411

00:16:09,428 --> 00:16:09,649

[bob_gatty]: right

412

00:16:09,588 --> 00:16:10,912

[john_pabon_]: exactly right exactly

413

00:16:11,605 --> 00:16:11,726

[bob_gatty]: how

414

00:16:12,367 --> 00:16:12,529

[john_pabon_]: how

415

00:16:12,649 --> 00:16:14,417

[bob_gatty]: how long have you been doing this

for fulcrum

416

00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:19,986

[john_pabon_]: so filcumhas been around since twenty seventeen

starting off in china

417

00:16:19,828 --> 00:16:19,950

[bob_gatty]: yeah

418

00:16:20,207 --> 00:16:23,933

[john_pabon_]: and then when i moved to australia

in twenty twenty brought it with me here

419

00:16:24,073 --> 00:16:29,010

[john_pabon_]: seeing that there was quite a need

market for more strategic thinking for our business

420

00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:29,773

[john_pabon_]: and sustainability

421

00:16:30,652 --> 00:16:31,957

[bob_gatty]: so how is it being received

422

00:16:33,547 --> 00:16:34,929

[john_pabon_]: it's an interesting thing so

423

00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:34,920

[bob_gatty]: so

424

00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:39,397

[john_pabon_]: you have sort of two big camps

of companies you have the big sort of

425

00:16:39,537 --> 00:16:39,978

[john_pabon_]: mnces

426

00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:40,080

[bob_gatty]: yeah

427

00:16:40,018 --> 00:16:44,685

[john_pabon_]: that are quite mature when it comes

to sustain ability and they're looking for what

428

00:16:44,786 --> 00:16:49,969

[john_pabon_]: we do as a way to really

strategize

429

00:16:49,593 --> 00:16:49,754

[bob_gatty]: no

430

00:16:50,069 --> 00:16:55,458

[john_pabon_]: and operationalize their sustainability so sort of

doing sense check on a lot of the

431

00:16:55,498 --> 00:16:56,099

[john_pabon_]: work they're doing

432

00:16:56,551 --> 00:16:56,632

[bob_gatty]: hm

433

00:16:56,620 --> 00:17:00,166

[john_pabon_]: but then interestingly and something that i

didn't think of when i first started the

434

00:17:00,266 --> 00:17:06,757

[john_pabon_]: segment of really smaller newer enterprises and

what they're looking at this through the lens

435

00:17:06,857 --> 00:17:11,765

[john_pabon_]: of is capitalization so if i am

a more sustainable business then

436

00:17:11,761 --> 00:17:11,862

[bob_gatty]: oh

437

00:17:12,146 --> 00:17:16,072

[john_pabon_]: the investor community is really going to

love me so they're looking at it probably

438

00:17:16,173 --> 00:17:23,525

[john_pabon_]: much more along the line of operationalizing

sustainability and and getting investment from it

439

00:17:24,231 --> 00:17:27,798

[bob_gatty]: you know i had an interview i

did an interview couple of months ago

440

00:17:28,476 --> 00:17:28,879

[john_pabon_]: oh

441

00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:32,988

[bob_gatty]: with young man who as got an

investment company

442

00:17:33,996 --> 00:17:34,357

[john_pabon_]: yeah

443

00:17:34,211 --> 00:17:43,377

[bob_gatty]: um and he told he told me

that the accounts that he that he steers

444

00:17:43,518 --> 00:17:45,339

[bob_gatty]: people to right

445

00:17:46,038 --> 00:17:46,059

[john_pabon_]: m

446

00:17:46,491 --> 00:17:50,090

[bob_gatty]: i guess you could call them green

companies oh that

447

00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:50,809

[john_pabon_]: a

448

00:17:50,991 --> 00:17:59,723

[bob_gatty]: those companies generally are doing better for

his clients than a regular you know old

449

00:17:59,803 --> 00:18:04,081

[bob_gatty]: line thirty companies does that surprise

450

00:18:03,898 --> 00:18:04,358

[john_pabon_]: statistic

451

00:18:04,121 --> 00:18:04,202

[bob_gatty]: you

452

00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:10,368

[john_pabon_]: no statistically we're seeing a lot of

information coming out of the investor community because

453

00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:10,421

[bob_gatty]: yeah

454

00:18:10,609 --> 00:18:14,054

[john_pabon_]: l p's and funds have started to

pay attention

455

00:18:13,979 --> 00:18:14,741

[bob_gatty]: yeah uh

456

00:18:14,595 --> 00:18:17,420

[john_pabon_]: to sustainability a bit more over the

past few years so

457

00:18:17,371 --> 00:18:17,532

[bob_gatty]: yeah

458

00:18:17,721 --> 00:18:20,926

[john_pabon_]: so they have noted that companies that

are green

459

00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:20,940

[bob_gatty]: yeah

460

00:18:21,086 --> 00:18:26,095

[john_pabon_]: however you define that tend to out

perform the market certainly out perform their peers

461

00:18:26,495 --> 00:18:32,025

[john_pabon_]: they a higher engagement from employees they

definitely have higher productivity higher retention rates so

462

00:18:33,067 --> 00:18:37,134

[john_pabon_]: buy and large by whatever measure you

you call a green company they do perform

463

00:18:37,194 --> 00:18:37,414

[john_pabon_]: better

464

00:18:39,211 --> 00:18:42,276

[bob_gatty]: that's really interesting and it's also a

very hopeful side because if

465

00:18:42,576 --> 00:18:43,021

[john_pabon_]: my

466

00:18:43,137 --> 00:18:44,760

[bob_gatty]: if we're ever going to get a

467

00:18:44,806 --> 00:18:44,987

[john_pabon_]: never

468

00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:53,077

[bob_gatty]: handle on all of this we certainly

have got to have support from from the

469

00:18:53,137 --> 00:18:58,223

[bob_gatty]: business world otherwise nothing is ever going

to happen my

470

00:18:58,259 --> 00:18:58,419

[john_pabon_]: that's

471

00:18:58,283 --> 00:18:58,524

[bob_gatty]: opinion

472

00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,002

[john_pabon_]: that's exactly right and

473

00:18:59,922 --> 00:19:00,105

[bob_gatty]: yeah

474

00:19:00,463 --> 00:19:03,307

[john_pabon_]: bit of a i guess a bit

of a hopeful message from from me and

475

00:19:03,348 --> 00:19:04,329

[john_pabon_]: i obviously don't have a crystal

476

00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:04,280

[bob_gatty]: m

477

00:19:04,409 --> 00:19:05,912

[john_pabon_]: ball even though it be nice to

have one

478

00:19:06,367 --> 00:19:06,387

[bob_gatty]: m

479

00:19:06,773 --> 00:19:11,721

[john_pabon_]: is you know in ten maybe fifteen

years time when a consumer goes to the

480

00:19:11,762 --> 00:19:17,030

[john_pabon_]: shelf all of their options are going

to be quote unquote sustainable options whereas now

481

00:19:17,151 --> 00:19:20,596

[john_pabon_]: you need to really do your research

and make a concerted effort probably pay a

482

00:19:20,636 --> 00:19:25,264

[john_pabon_]: little bit more at the shelf for

something that's organic or sustainable but the way

483

00:19:25,364 --> 00:19:26,686

[john_pabon_]: companies are going i

484

00:19:26,683 --> 00:19:26,704

[bob_gatty]: i

485

00:19:26,847 --> 00:19:31,114

[john_pabon_]: just don't see room in the market

in fifteen years for companies that continue with

486

00:19:31,134 --> 00:19:35,202

[john_pabon_]: their old dirty ways the market will

phase them out capitalism will will work its

487

00:19:35,282 --> 00:19:40,553

[john_pabon_]: magic and those companies won't be around

any more so there is definitely a move

488

00:19:40,573 --> 00:19:41,214

[john_pabon_]: in the right direction

489

00:19:41,470 --> 00:19:43,712

[bob_gatty]: yeah you know i was in the

grocery store yesterday

490

00:19:43,206 --> 00:19:44,466

[john_pabon_]: my

491

00:19:44,413 --> 00:19:45,955

[bob_gatty]: and my wife pointed

492

00:19:45,696 --> 00:19:46,326

[john_pabon_]: oh

493

00:19:46,035 --> 00:19:51,601

[bob_gatty]: to the strawberries and the regular strawberries

we're

494

00:19:51,936 --> 00:19:52,656

[john_pabon_]: oh

495

00:19:52,322 --> 00:19:53,344

[bob_gatty]: four ninety

496

00:19:53,226 --> 00:19:53,486

[john_pabon_]: oh

497

00:19:53,465 --> 00:19:59,765

[bob_gatty]: five for a i don't know i

guess a pound container of strawberries

498

00:20:00,138 --> 00:20:00,158

[john_pabon_]: a

499

00:20:00,707 --> 00:20:00,887

[bob_gatty]: and

500

00:20:00,787 --> 00:20:00,868

[john_pabon_]: ah

501

00:20:00,987 --> 00:20:09,966

[bob_gatty]: the organic two bucks more my opinion

you have to be really committed when you

502

00:20:10,346 --> 00:20:10,467

[bob_gatty]: are

503

00:20:10,567 --> 00:20:10,668

[john_pabon_]: you

504

00:20:10,667 --> 00:20:20,403

[bob_gatty]: paying that kind of a premium for

for organic products and i don't understand why

505

00:20:20,544 --> 00:20:22,648

[bob_gatty]: they have to be more expensive do

you

506

00:20:23,046 --> 00:20:30,838

[john_pabon_]: yeah in certain instances i suppose there

would be a reason so they might be

507

00:20:30,879 --> 00:20:35,005

[john_pabon_]: paying their workers more than might be

actually paying them a living wage so that

508

00:20:35,386 --> 00:20:40,254

[john_pabon_]: that would definitely up the price but

by and large i think companies are probably

509

00:20:40,475 --> 00:20:43,039

[john_pabon_]: just what do they say in australia

they say

510

00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,285

[bob_gatty]: my

511

00:20:43,139 --> 00:20:44,942

[john_pabon_]: taking the piss if they're

512

00:20:44,921 --> 00:20:49,649

[bob_gatty]: she

513

00:20:44,982 --> 00:20:49,648

[john_pabon_]: basically there they're just trying to find

a way to take a few extra books

514

00:20:49,708 --> 00:20:53,251

[john_pabon_]: for consumers when they probably don't need

to do that so like i was saying

515

00:20:53,291 --> 00:20:55,573

[john_pabon_]: a second ago i think all of

that will sort of level out we're

516

00:20:55,608 --> 00:20:55,788

[bob_gatty]: yeah

517

00:20:55,613 --> 00:20:57,315

[john_pabon_]: just kind of in that transition period

now

518

00:20:57,611 --> 00:20:59,194

[bob_gatty]: well i hope it does because

519

00:20:59,106 --> 00:21:01,116

[john_pabon_]: yeah

520

00:21:00,616 --> 00:21:01,458

[bob_gatty]: i mean it makes it really

521

00:21:01,536 --> 00:21:01,696

[john_pabon_]: yes

522

00:21:01,538 --> 00:21:04,483

[bob_gatty]: difficult especially a family uh

523

00:21:04,566 --> 00:21:05,556

[john_pabon_]: yeah

524

00:21:05,224 --> 00:21:05,504

[bob_gatty]: you know

525

00:21:06,186 --> 00:21:06,409

[john_pabon_]: oh

526

00:21:06,466 --> 00:21:07,668

[bob_gatty]: in my case i've

527

00:21:07,678 --> 00:21:07,698

[john_pabon_]: i

528

00:21:07,708 --> 00:21:13,538

[bob_gatty]: got you know i'm all right i'm

just being my wife but you know i

529

00:21:13,598 --> 00:21:15,512

[bob_gatty]: can afford to pay a couple bucks

more but

530

00:21:16,206 --> 00:21:16,370

[john_pabon_]: yeah

531

00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,312

[bob_gatty]: you know my neighbor across the street

that's got five kids and they're both teachers

532

00:21:22,014 --> 00:21:27,283

[bob_gatty]: who don't make very much money i

don't know how they make ends me a

533

00:21:27,438 --> 00:21:27,519

[john_pabon_]: ah

534

00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:31,766

[bob_gatty]: so it's got to be really hard

for them and

535

00:21:31,656 --> 00:21:31,881

[john_pabon_]: oh

536

00:21:32,287 --> 00:21:36,354

[bob_gatty]: they're buying a lot more groceries than

i am so anyway

537

00:21:36,697 --> 00:21:40,543

[john_pabon_]: that's right and i think with that

you definitely have to have if you're just

538

00:21:41,024 --> 00:21:41,906

[john_pabon_]: the normal person in the

539

00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:42,184

[bob_gatty]: oh

540

00:21:42,106 --> 00:21:46,193

[john_pabon_]: in the in the store the company

really has to sell you on why like

541

00:21:46,373 --> 00:21:47,835

[john_pabon_]: we talk about in politics all politic

542

00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:48,330

[bob_gatty]: oh

543

00:21:47,936 --> 00:21:48,877

[john_pabon_]: its local it's the same

544

00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:49,025

[bob_gatty]: yes

545

00:21:48,917 --> 00:21:52,163

[john_pabon_]: with sustainability if i'm going to pay

two bucks more for that pound of strawberry

546

00:21:52,203 --> 00:21:54,026

[john_pabon_]: is why what does it have to

do with me

547

00:21:54,292 --> 00:21:54,814

[bob_gatty]: exactly

548

00:21:54,426 --> 00:21:55,709

[john_pabon_]: there may be a story there there

549

00:21:55,736 --> 00:21:55,897

[bob_gatty]: yeah

550

00:21:55,769 --> 00:21:57,131

[john_pabon_]: probably isn't a story there but

551

00:21:57,020 --> 00:21:57,221

[bob_gatty]: yeah

552

00:21:57,472 --> 00:21:59,375

[john_pabon_]: they do need to be better about

teasing that out

553

00:21:59,711 --> 00:22:04,979

[bob_gatty]: yeah but you know i think that

i think that you're right um a lot

554

00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:10,869

[bob_gatty]: of times everything just comes down to

greed my opinion just greed and and in

555

00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:17,442

[bob_gatty]: ton you know everybody is waning and

carrying on about inflation and yeah stuff cost

556

00:22:17,542 --> 00:22:24,548

[bob_gatty]: more but why why does it cost

more these corporations are making more money than

557

00:22:24,588 --> 00:22:25,249

[bob_gatty]: they ever did

558

00:22:26,137 --> 00:22:26,439

[john_pabon_]: that's it

559

00:22:27,541 --> 00:22:29,961

[bob_gatty]: and anyway don't get me

560

00:22:30,006 --> 00:22:30,307

[john_pabon_]: oh

561

00:22:30,021 --> 00:22:34,889

[bob_gatty]: started on that all right so you

562

00:22:34,969 --> 00:22:35,090

[john_pabon_]: so

563

00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:39,497

[bob_gatty]: set something else that kind of got

me we touched on it a little bit

564

00:22:39,577 --> 00:22:45,715

[bob_gatty]: you say that greenies and the echo

warriors have actually made the world a worse

565

00:22:45,896 --> 00:22:50,024

[bob_gatty]: place why is that i mean they're

not going

566

00:22:49,837 --> 00:22:50,057

[john_pabon_]: are you

567

00:22:50,085 --> 00:22:54,052

[bob_gatty]: to hear that somebody that takes our

time and goes out and puts up a

568

00:22:54,152 --> 00:23:00,032

[bob_gatty]: sign and march us around and says

you know let's have some clean air or

569

00:23:00,093 --> 00:23:05,323

[bob_gatty]: whatever now they say in the terse

they're committed man you know give them hem

570

00:23:05,423 --> 00:23:05,824

[bob_gatty]: a break

571

00:23:07,951 --> 00:23:08,051

[john_pabon_]: so

572

00:23:08,910 --> 00:23:09,150

[bob_gatty]: oh

573

00:23:09,233 --> 00:23:13,921

[john_pabon_]: it's a really good question and in

my book i talk a lot about about

574

00:23:13,961 --> 00:23:21,033

[john_pabon_]: the greens and the ecoactivists as not

necessarily making things worse but but

575

00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:21,411

[bob_gatty]: yeah

576

00:23:21,213 --> 00:23:25,781

[john_pabon_]: certainly not being as strategic and pragmatic

as they probably could be so

577

00:23:25,834 --> 00:23:26,116

[bob_gatty]: okay

578

00:23:26,141 --> 00:23:28,706

[john_pabon_]: i like to call myself a pragmatic

ultruist so

579

00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:28,980

[bob_gatty]: yeah

580

00:23:29,046 --> 00:23:31,210

[john_pabon_]: ultrist we love to wear our hearts

on our sleeves we

581

00:23:31,649 --> 00:23:31,749

[bob_gatty]: yeah

582

00:23:31,651 --> 00:23:33,534

[john_pabon_]: have all these causes that we care

about but

583

00:23:33,851 --> 00:23:34,091

[bob_gatty]: right

584

00:23:34,175 --> 00:23:37,861

[john_pabon_]: we try not that strategic and pragmatic

in the way we're doing things and you

585

00:23:37,921 --> 00:23:41,166

[john_pabon_]: look at some of the recent protests

out of out of the u k the

586

00:23:41,307 --> 00:23:45,754

[john_pabon_]: just up oil group is a great

example of throwing you know tomato soup on

587

00:23:45,794 --> 00:23:50,582

[john_pabon_]: a van go i don't quite understand

what that is supposed to do if if

588

00:23:51,063 --> 00:23:57,113

[john_pabon_]: it's to gather impressions and to create

buzz absolutely it worked a treat but if

589

00:23:57,060 --> 00:23:57,750

[bob_gatty]: yeah

590

00:23:57,193 --> 00:23:58,796

[john_pabon_]: it's to convert people which what

591

00:23:58,801 --> 00:23:58,903

[bob_gatty]: oh

592

00:23:58,836 --> 00:23:59,978

[john_pabon_]: we should be doing converting

593

00:23:59,818 --> 00:23:59,940

[bob_gatty]: right

594

00:24:00,038 --> 00:24:03,023

[john_pabon_]: people to our cause probably didn't work

as well because

595

00:24:02,901 --> 00:24:04,680

[bob_gatty]: yeah

596

00:24:03,103 --> 00:24:05,928

[john_pabon_]: people are kind of scratching their heads

going i don't nderstand what that has to

597

00:24:05,988 --> 00:24:07,931

[john_pabon_]: do with food security

598

00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:08,021

[bob_gatty]: oh

599

00:24:07,971 --> 00:24:09,414

[john_pabon_]: i think is what they were talking

about but

600

00:24:09,427 --> 00:24:09,608

[bob_gatty]: right

601

00:24:09,554 --> 00:24:14,061

[john_pabon_]: environmental ism or any like that and

it's the same thing at protests oftentimes you'll

602

00:24:14,121 --> 00:24:19,190

[john_pabon_]: see uh there is definitely a concerted

group of people that have the signs and

603

00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:23,317

[john_pabon_]: they're they're there and they're passionate about

what they're doing but often you go to

604

00:24:23,357 --> 00:24:26,963

[john_pabon_]: these sort of parades or protests and

then as you get away from that core

605

00:24:27,003 --> 00:24:29,247

[john_pabon_]: group you start to see sort of

the hippis you start to

606

00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:41,280

[bob_gatty]: oh

607

00:24:29,287 --> 00:24:34,035

[john_pabon_]: see the fire twirlers you start to

see you know families with goats and just

608

00:24:34,075 --> 00:24:37,200

[john_pabon_]: these random things that have nothing to

do with what you're supposed to be talking

609

00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:41,647

[john_pabon_]: about so that's what i mean when

you know when we're talking about the message

610

00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,096

[bob_gatty]: uh

611

00:24:41,787 --> 00:24:44,712

[john_pabon_]: and we're talking about the optics of

everything

612

00:24:44,619 --> 00:24:44,639

[bob_gatty]: h

613

00:24:45,634 --> 00:24:48,799

[john_pabon_]: that's when they're sort of in in

the way so if they're if they're pragmatic

614

00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:52,485

[john_pabon_]: and strategic more power to them i

love those sort of activists

615

00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:52,771

[bob_gatty]: right

616

00:24:52,606 --> 00:24:56,492

[john_pabon_]: but if they're just if the they're

spouting nonsense they don't now what they're talking

617

00:24:56,552 --> 00:25:00,318

[john_pabon_]: about or even worse there really at

the fringes of society

618

00:24:59,869 --> 00:25:02,430

[bob_gatty]: yes right

619

00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,063

[john_pabon_]: that's doing nothing to get people to

our cause because

620

00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:03,101

[bob_gatty]: oh

621

00:25:03,223 --> 00:25:04,305

[john_pabon_]: nobody at this day

622

00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:05,910

[bob_gatty]: yah

623

00:25:04,365 --> 00:25:07,691

[john_pabon_]: and age and i don't advocate for

this nobody is going to live off the

624

00:25:07,731 --> 00:25:08,752

[john_pabon_]: grid nobody

625

00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:08,901

[bob_gatty]: yeah

626

00:25:08,853 --> 00:25:12,879

[john_pabon_]: is stopping international travel he's getting rid

of their mobile phones like this is just

627

00:25:12,939 --> 00:25:14,362

[john_pabon_]: not happening it's not realistic

628

00:25:14,645 --> 00:25:14,846

[bob_gatty]: right

629

00:25:14,742 --> 00:25:16,666

[john_pabon_]: some people will the majority won't so

630

00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:16,831

[bob_gatty]: right

631

00:25:17,407 --> 00:25:20,232

[john_pabon_]: if we continue to push that message

that you need to get rid of all

632

00:25:20,272 --> 00:25:21,954

[john_pabon_]: this stuff and really live

633

00:25:22,252 --> 00:25:22,352

[bob_gatty]: he

634

00:25:22,936 --> 00:25:26,202

[john_pabon_]: kind of like we're back in the

middle ages no one's listening to that so

635

00:25:26,757 --> 00:25:26,838

[bob_gatty]: no

636

00:25:27,384 --> 00:25:30,991

[john_pabon_]: there needs to be a much more

pragmaticmessage and optics that comes out of of

637

00:25:31,071 --> 00:25:34,897

[john_pabon_]: that particular part of the community and

they'll call me a sell out for saying

638

00:25:34,957 --> 00:25:36,178

[john_pabon_]: all of that so they'll

639

00:25:35,959 --> 00:25:36,219

[bob_gatty]: i don't

640

00:25:36,218 --> 00:25:36,319

[john_pabon_]: come

641

00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:36,580

[bob_gatty]: think

642

00:25:36,379 --> 00:25:36,939

[john_pabon_]: at me i'm sure

643

00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,027

[bob_gatty]: so i don't think so i don't

think so to me it makes a ton

644

00:25:41,107 --> 00:25:43,039

[bob_gatty]: of sense because um

645

00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:43,789

[john_pabon_]: ah

646

00:25:43,869 --> 00:25:46,745

[bob_gatty]: m if anything is going to happen

it has to come from the people with

647

00:25:46,765 --> 00:25:48,127

[bob_gatty]: the power and the people with the

money

648

00:25:49,056 --> 00:25:49,836

[john_pabon_]: my

649

00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:50,341

[bob_gatty]: and you can march

650

00:25:50,366 --> 00:25:50,447

[john_pabon_]: and

651

00:25:50,421 --> 00:25:51,363

[bob_gatty]: around all you want

652

00:25:51,552 --> 00:25:51,652

[john_pabon_]: all

653

00:25:51,743 --> 00:25:57,513

[bob_gatty]: and and you know make make lot

of noise and that's fine to show

654

00:25:58,152 --> 00:25:58,294

[john_pabon_]: show

655

00:25:59,456 --> 00:26:02,001

[bob_gatty]: you know you know that a lot

of people support whatever the

656

00:26:01,956 --> 00:26:02,116

[john_pabon_]: oh

657

00:26:02,061 --> 00:26:08,716

[bob_gatty]: effort is but to just do all

of that and and nothing more so what

658

00:26:09,097 --> 00:26:11,413

[bob_gatty]: else should the average

659

00:26:11,226 --> 00:26:11,326

[john_pabon_]: so

660

00:26:11,533 --> 00:26:15,203

[bob_gatty]: person be doing instead of you know

661

00:26:15,136 --> 00:26:15,237

[john_pabon_]: no

662

00:26:15,363 --> 00:26:17,188

[bob_gatty]: focusing their time on that kind of

stuff

663

00:26:18,367 --> 00:26:23,215

[john_pabon_]: yeah so in my book i do

lay out the five point plan for what

664

00:26:23,335 --> 00:26:26,240

[john_pabon_]: people can be doing and i think

the most important part we touched on is

665

00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:30,507

[john_pabon_]: just to be a more pragmatic ultra

is think strategically about what you're and the

666

00:26:30,567 --> 00:26:34,214

[john_pabon_]: other point sort of fall underneath that

and i think the second biggest point that

667

00:26:34,274 --> 00:26:34,574

[john_pabon_]: people

668

00:26:35,379 --> 00:26:35,400

[bob_gatty]: m

669

00:26:35,957 --> 00:26:43,199

[john_pabon_]: should embrace but it's it's really mental

switch is you can do anything but

670

00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:43,311

[bob_gatty]: yeah

671

00:26:43,239 --> 00:26:48,548

[john_pabon_]: you cannot do everything so are our

resources are sanity all of that is very

672

00:26:48,688 --> 00:26:49,650

[john_pabon_]: finite so

673

00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:49,890

[bob_gatty]: m

674

00:26:50,271 --> 00:26:53,236

[john_pabon_]: you know especially as ultras we want

to go out we want to

675

00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:53,820

[bob_gatty]: m

676

00:26:53,857 --> 00:26:54,137

[john_pabon_]: you know

677

00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:54,608

[bob_gatty]: oh

678

00:26:54,378 --> 00:26:55,359

[john_pabon_]: give money to a homeless

679

00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:55,522

[bob_gatty]: yah

680

00:26:55,419 --> 00:26:58,965

[john_pabon_]: shelter we want to save the puppy

dog on the street we want to you

681

00:26:59,005 --> 00:27:02,651

[john_pabon_]: know go read to the elderly you

can't do all that stuff so you need

682

00:27:02,692 --> 00:27:07,686

[john_pabon_]: to really carve out your own niche

of the world with the understanding that there

683

00:27:07,726 --> 00:27:11,449

[john_pabon_]: are millions of other people that are

picking up where you might not be able

684

00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:13,471

[john_pabon_]: to you don't need to do it

all yourself so

685

00:27:13,471 --> 00:27:13,692

[bob_gatty]: right

686

00:27:14,272 --> 00:27:19,838

[john_pabon_]: to really be heartless in a lot

of ways with just what you're doing and

687

00:27:20,479 --> 00:27:21,661

[john_pabon_]: i have had a

688

00:27:21,901 --> 00:27:22,725

[bob_gatty]: exactly

689

00:27:22,282 --> 00:27:25,167

[john_pabon_]: lifetime struggling with with that change in

690

00:27:25,141 --> 00:27:25,462

[bob_gatty]: okay

691

00:27:25,247 --> 00:27:29,274

[john_pabon_]: mentality because for me i want to

do all those things but i know that

692

00:27:29,394 --> 00:27:33,661

[john_pabon_]: my little part of the universe that

i've carved out is working with a private

693

00:27:33,701 --> 00:27:33,962

[john_pabon_]: sector

694

00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,001

[bob_gatty]: oh

695

00:27:34,062 --> 00:27:36,486

[john_pabon_]: so i'm sort of you know if

i see a dog on the street i

696

00:27:36,586 --> 00:27:38,630

[john_pabon_]: want to save it i want to

give it food but i sort of have

697

00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:39,451

[john_pabon_]: to turn the other way

698

00:27:39,733 --> 00:27:40,263

[bob_gatty]: he

699

00:27:39,751 --> 00:27:44,067

[john_pabon_]: in the hopes that somebody in the

knowledge that some will pick up and help

700

00:27:44,147 --> 00:27:44,691

[john_pabon_]: that dog out

701

00:27:46,491 --> 00:27:46,772

[bob_gatty]: okay

702

00:27:46,836 --> 00:27:47,136

[john_pabon_]: yeah

703

00:27:47,513 --> 00:27:51,900

[bob_gatty]: well i enjoyed reading a passage that

you included in

704

00:27:51,846 --> 00:27:53,166

[john_pabon_]: yeah

705

00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:54,845

[bob_gatty]: your media kit from your book

706

00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:54,881

[john_pabon_]: oh

707

00:27:55,687 --> 00:27:56,047

[bob_gatty]: about

708

00:27:56,627 --> 00:27:57,966

[john_pabon_]: yeah

709

00:27:58,031 --> 00:28:01,041

[bob_gatty]: a time i forget where it was

where you were

710

00:28:01,818 --> 00:28:01,899

[john_pabon_]: ah

711

00:28:01,944 --> 00:28:10,039

[bob_gatty]: but there was a demonstration it was

an environmental demonstration of some kind or another

712

00:28:11,262 --> 00:28:19,099

[bob_gatty]: and you described all these fringe wacoes

that we're hanging on round right and

713

00:28:19,416 --> 00:28:19,657

[john_pabon_]: yeah

714

00:28:20,062 --> 00:28:25,446

[bob_gatty]: and and i read that and i

thought well that really does hurt the cause

715

00:28:25,746 --> 00:28:25,987

[john_pabon_]: oh

716

00:28:26,207 --> 00:28:34,238

[bob_gatty]: because then people get the idea that

everybody that's in the demonstration everybody that's protesting

717

00:28:34,298 --> 00:28:38,646

[bob_gatty]: everybody that's that's arguing that we need

to do better that they're all just a

718

00:28:38,706 --> 00:28:43,504

[bob_gatty]: bunch of crazies and the and the

other side

719

00:28:43,462 --> 00:28:44,284

[john_pabon_]: the other side

720

00:28:45,050 --> 00:28:48,282

[bob_gatty]: takes good advantage of that right

721

00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:50,904

[john_pabon_]: absolutely and and i know people are

listening but

722

00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:51,230

[bob_gatty]: yes

723

00:28:50,984 --> 00:28:55,371

[john_pabon_]: just for those that are i don't

have dread locks and i've taken a shower

724

00:28:55,451 --> 00:28:55,651

[john_pabon_]: today

725

00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:56,170

[bob_gatty]: oh

726

00:28:55,912 --> 00:29:01,141

[john_pabon_]: so you know not everybody is is

one of those eco warriors you know most

727

00:29:01,201 --> 00:29:03,885

[john_pabon_]: of us that are in the movement

look like look like everybody else

728

00:29:04,184 --> 00:29:04,344

[bob_gatty]: well

729

00:29:04,186 --> 00:29:04,306

[john_pabon_]: so

730

00:29:04,405 --> 00:29:04,925

[bob_gatty]: you will be

731

00:29:04,947 --> 00:29:05,668

[john_pabon_]: you're absolutely right

732

00:29:05,987 --> 00:29:10,455

[bob_gatty]: you will be happy to know that

i will i am going

733

00:29:10,356 --> 00:29:10,576

[john_pabon_]: will

734

00:29:10,515 --> 00:29:15,884

[bob_gatty]: to make a video of this as

well so people who get to watch that

735

00:29:16,184 --> 00:29:21,092

[bob_gatty]: on youtube will see that you are

far from dread locked

736

00:29:21,842 --> 00:29:24,686

[john_pabon_]: yes very far from dread locked absolutely

737

00:29:26,441 --> 00:29:29,106

[bob_gatty]: he's got he's got more hair around

his

738

00:29:30,216 --> 00:29:30,236

[john_pabon_]: y

739

00:29:30,248 --> 00:29:33,874

[bob_gatty]: his mustache and little straggly beard that

he's

740

00:29:33,862 --> 00:29:34,102

[john_pabon_]: yes

741

00:29:33,954 --> 00:29:34,955

[bob_gatty]: got going on there

742

00:29:35,564 --> 00:29:35,765

[john_pabon_]: that's

743

00:29:35,637 --> 00:29:35,797

[bob_gatty]: then

744

00:29:35,905 --> 00:29:41,214

[john_pabon_]: it and on the top of my

headabsolutely

745

00:29:43,466 --> 00:29:43,746

[bob_gatty]: okay

746

00:29:43,659 --> 00:29:43,939

[john_pabon_]: it's pat

747

00:29:44,046 --> 00:29:44,727

[bob_gatty]: all right so

748

00:29:45,002 --> 00:29:48,068

[john_pabon_]: but that what's interesting about that that

sort of

749

00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:48,930

[bob_gatty]: oh

750

00:29:48,108 --> 00:29:52,567

[john_pabon_]: experience you mentioned what the protest is

you know just looking at it from the

751

00:29:52,607 --> 00:29:56,874

[john_pabon_]: outside yeah there's all these uh sort

loony tunes you know as part of it

752

00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:57,160

[bob_gatty]: right

753

00:29:56,915 --> 00:29:59,739

[john_pabon_]: and of course there's like we said

there's here's the core message and the core

754

00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:01,142

[john_pabon_]: group of people and they were definitely

755

00:30:00,944 --> 00:30:01,185

[bob_gatty]: right

756

00:30:01,202 --> 00:30:04,928

[john_pabon_]: there you didn't look at that and

go don't know what they're protesting about it

757

00:30:04,968 --> 00:30:05,669

[john_pabon_]: was very clear

758

00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:06,133

[bob_gatty]: sure

759

00:30:06,450 --> 00:30:09,736

[john_pabon_]: just the groups of people it wasn't

it wasn't so clear but i think the

760

00:30:09,816 --> 00:30:11,138

[john_pabon_]: complicating factor with that

761

00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,321

[bob_gatty]: oh

762

00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,828

[john_pabon_]: is and for myself as a sustainability

professional sort of how preface the whole experience

763

00:30:16,868 --> 00:30:19,372

[john_pabon_]: is that i needed to be somewhere

i had

764

00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:19,461

[bob_gatty]: oh

765

00:30:19,432 --> 00:30:22,677

[john_pabon_]: a meeting that i needed to get

to and i couldn't do it because the

766

00:30:22,738 --> 00:30:23,799

[john_pabon_]: protesters were blocking

767

00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:23,540

[bob_gatty]: m

768

00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:29,509

[john_pabon_]: traffic and so i understood sort of

the situation but if you are just a

769

00:30:29,649 --> 00:30:33,395

[john_pabon_]: normal person you need to get to

work or you have something important you need

770

00:30:33,435 --> 00:30:37,061

[john_pabon_]: to get to and these sort of

wack balls are

771

00:30:37,050 --> 00:30:37,250

[bob_gatty]: yeah

772

00:30:37,142 --> 00:30:40,647

[john_pabon_]: blocking your way preventing you from doing

something that you you know isn't imperative in

773

00:30:40,688 --> 00:30:41,128

[john_pabon_]: your life

774

00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:41,563

[bob_gatty]: sure

775

00:30:41,589 --> 00:30:44,213

[john_pabon_]: that's not doing anything to get you

over to the cause either it

776

00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:44,261

[bob_gatty]: no

777

00:30:44,253 --> 00:30:47,479

[john_pabon_]: all you're doing is your your you're

aggravated at them and then you look at

778

00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,001

[john_pabon_]: it and go you know what's the

whole point

779

00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:49,050

[bob_gatty]: m

780

00:30:49,061 --> 00:30:49,903

[john_pabon_]: of all of this so

781

00:30:49,791 --> 00:30:50,113

[bob_gatty]: all right

782

00:30:50,504 --> 00:30:50,604

[john_pabon_]: the

783

00:30:50,555 --> 00:30:50,776

[bob_gatty]: right

784

00:30:50,764 --> 00:30:53,912

[john_pabon_]: optics are bad and the execution is

not always there

785

00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,326

[bob_gatty]: m who were some of the wacoes

that were that particular demonstration

786

00:30:59,601 --> 00:31:02,285

[john_pabon_]: oh i mean i mean like i

said you had the fire twirlers there was

787

00:31:02,325 --> 00:31:05,490

[john_pabon_]: a few of those melbourne's a s

an interesting place it's

788

00:31:05,790 --> 00:31:06,351

[bob_gatty]: oh

789

00:31:05,871 --> 00:31:12,021

[john_pabon_]: probably the most left in place i

have ever lived in my life it's it's

790

00:31:12,242 --> 00:31:13,564

[john_pabon_]: full of lots of

791

00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:13,612

[bob_gatty]: oh

792

00:31:14,485 --> 00:31:16,208

[john_pabon_]: ego and green warriors so you certainly

793

00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:15,930

[bob_gatty]: h

794

00:31:16,268 --> 00:31:19,273

[john_pabon_]: had those groups of people you had

family sort of taking a day out and

795

00:31:19,313 --> 00:31:22,078

[john_pabon_]: having a bit of a picnic around

it well which is quite nice to see

796

00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:28,108

[john_pabon_]: but it was it was more of

this sort of burning man's circus festival vibe

797

00:31:28,469 --> 00:31:29,210

[john_pabon_]: than anything

798

00:31:28,862 --> 00:31:28,922

[bob_gatty]: m

799

00:31:29,290 --> 00:31:30,692

[john_pabon_]: that's going to convince

800

00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:33,135

[bob_gatty]: yah

801

00:31:30,732 --> 00:31:33,558

[john_pabon_]: the government to listen to you oh

802

00:31:34,959 --> 00:31:45,316

[bob_gatty]: h burning man festival festival vibeyeahht

803

00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:42,816

[john_pabon_]: yes which i guess in the right

context it might have been fun but you

804

00:31:42,856 --> 00:31:43,597

[john_pabon_]: know i had somewhere to be

805

00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:48,201

[bob_gatty]: i just took

806

00:31:48,305 --> 00:31:48,486

[john_pabon_]: right

807

00:31:48,782 --> 00:31:52,128

[bob_gatty]: all right so now you have a

new book covered out it's called the great

808

00:31:52,488 --> 00:31:55,313

[bob_gatty]: green washing so tell

809

00:31:55,206 --> 00:31:55,426

[john_pabon_]: oh

810

00:31:55,353 --> 00:32:00,722

[bob_gatty]: me first what the hell is green

washing and secondly how can we recognize it

811

00:32:00,902 --> 00:32:03,667

[bob_gatty]: and i guess it's bad so how

can we avoid it

812

00:32:04,702 --> 00:32:08,728

[john_pabon_]: i tend to only talk about the

bad stuff it's true so green washing is

813

00:32:08,868 --> 00:32:13,737

[john_pabon_]: it's it's a play on the term

whitewashing and it's essentially when corporations are

814

00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:14,460

[bob_gatty]: yeah

815

00:32:14,798 --> 00:32:15,880

[john_pabon_]: cloaking themselves

816

00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:15,580

[bob_gatty]: so

817

00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:20,949

[john_pabon_]: in the notions of sustainability to show

that they're gr o o o friendly when

818

00:32:20,989 --> 00:32:23,974

[john_pabon_]: they're probably not so essentially it's when

corporations are lying

819

00:32:23,814 --> 00:32:23,959

[bob_gatty]: like

820

00:32:24,014 --> 00:32:24,535

[john_pabon_]: to you which

821

00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:25,590

[bob_gatty]: uh

822

00:32:24,735 --> 00:32:28,942

[john_pabon_]: they love to do so it's really

built into the marketing mix so

823

00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:29,092

[bob_gatty]: oh

824

00:32:29,182 --> 00:32:34,251

[john_pabon_]: you'll see a lot of times corporation

and a outright lying to you

825

00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:35,021

[bob_gatty]: yes

826

00:32:35,152 --> 00:32:38,979

[john_pabon_]: on mobile is a great example they

have cloaked themselves in sustainability

827

00:32:38,321 --> 00:32:38,341

[bob_gatty]: i

828

00:32:39,099 --> 00:32:41,323

[john_pabon_]: talking about how they're good for humanity

way

829

00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:41,552

[bob_gatty]: yeah

830

00:32:41,403 --> 00:32:45,369

[john_pabon_]: back since like the seventies until now

they still do it

831

00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:45,970

[bob_gatty]: right

832

00:32:45,910 --> 00:32:48,434

[john_pabon_]: we know they're not doing that so

that's outright lives

833

00:32:48,757 --> 00:32:48,958

[bob_gatty]: right

834

00:32:48,795 --> 00:32:50,378

[john_pabon_]: most corporations are a little bit smarter

835

00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:50,190

[bob_gatty]: oh

836

00:32:50,578 --> 00:32:55,005

[john_pabon_]: so it's it's a little bit more

deceitful so they'll use what i call green

837

00:32:55,186 --> 00:32:55,807

[john_pabon_]: speak so

838

00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:56,081

[bob_gatty]: yeah

839

00:32:55,947 --> 00:32:59,793

[john_pabon_]: they'll just say their ego friendly assuming

that you're not going to do research to

840

00:32:59,833 --> 00:33:02,298

[john_pabon_]: find out that they're not actually eco

friendly which

841

00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:02,520

[bob_gatty]: right

842

00:33:02,358 --> 00:33:04,982

[john_pabon_]: is true most people don't have the

time to do the research

843

00:33:05,202 --> 00:33:05,382

[bob_gatty]: sure

844

00:33:05,743 --> 00:33:12,214

[john_pabon_]: they'll do a lot around and semiotics

which is a fancy marketing term for the

845

00:33:12,394 --> 00:33:17,363

[john_pabon_]: colors and the visual identity of a

product so you see this a lot with

846

00:33:17,423 --> 00:33:22,531

[john_pabon_]: products that are in a green box

you know just these little neuro ques

847

00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:22,570

[bob_gatty]: yeah

848

00:33:22,591 --> 00:33:24,935

[john_pabon_]: that are supposed to say oh look

we're good for the earth

849

00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:25,497

[bob_gatty]: right

850

00:33:25,757 --> 00:33:28,541

[john_pabon_]: and they're probably not or seals of

approval

851

00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:29,082

[bob_gatty]: yeah

852

00:33:29,142 --> 00:33:30,845

[john_pabon_]: a lot of times you'll see for

example if you

853

00:33:30,878 --> 00:33:31,020

[bob_gatty]: yeah

854

00:33:30,885 --> 00:33:34,331

[john_pabon_]: go to the so story you'll often

see a little tree frog on a box

855

00:33:34,551 --> 00:33:38,818

[john_pabon_]: it's from the rain forest alliance and

it's to certify that whatever product that is

856

00:33:38,899 --> 00:33:39,339

[john_pabon_]: it's usually

857

00:33:39,179 --> 00:33:39,240

[bob_gatty]: ah

858

00:33:39,439 --> 00:33:44,949

[john_pabon_]: coco or coffee or tea is sustainably

sourced well marketing department said oh that's a

859

00:33:44,969 --> 00:33:48,334

[john_pabon_]: good idea we're going to make our

own and just stamp it on a box

860

00:33:48,495 --> 00:33:48,875

[john_pabon_]: because there's

861

00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:49,091

[bob_gatty]: yeah

862

00:33:48,895 --> 00:33:50,077

[john_pabon_]: no regulation around this

863

00:33:50,297 --> 00:33:50,478

[bob_gatty]: sure

864

00:33:50,498 --> 00:33:52,902

[john_pabon_]: and so you look at it and

go oh there's a stamp of approval from

865

00:33:53,022 --> 00:33:53,743

[john_pabon_]: some random

866

00:33:53,412 --> 00:33:53,493

[bob_gatty]: ah

867

00:33:54,525 --> 00:33:55,807

[john_pabon_]: eco group they must be good

868

00:33:56,152 --> 00:33:56,332

[bob_gatty]: right

869

00:33:56,648 --> 00:34:00,495

[john_pabon_]: not telling you it's actually the marketing

department that created that so all of these

870

00:34:00,575 --> 00:34:03,540

[john_pabon_]: these crazy things that companies are doing

to make

871

00:34:03,681 --> 00:34:03,701

[bob_gatty]: m

872

00:34:04,101 --> 00:34:09,129

[john_pabon_]: to really capitalize on sustain ability to

capitalize on con somers wanting to spend their

873

00:34:09,209 --> 00:34:13,376

[john_pabon_]: money wisely so they're really doing that

and i'll

874

00:34:13,301 --> 00:34:13,362

[bob_gatty]: he

875

00:34:13,436 --> 00:34:17,583

[john_pabon_]: also qualify that a bit because there's

kind of two big camps of green washing

876

00:34:17,663 --> 00:34:22,774

[john_pabon_]: the first of the outright lies but

into the marketing mix but particularly post covid

877

00:34:23,766 --> 00:34:28,353

[john_pabon_]: as more and more companies are joining

and jumping on the sustainability band wagon i

878

00:34:28,414 --> 00:34:32,180

[john_pabon_]: think a lot of them are accidentally

green washing they may not know that they're

879

00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:37,308

[john_pabon_]: doing something bad they're just trying to

sort of find they're footing a bit i'm

880

00:34:37,348 --> 00:34:39,973

[john_pabon_]: not giving them a pass but you

know they have they have a bit of

881

00:34:40,033 --> 00:34:40,834

[john_pabon_]: time to fix

882

00:34:40,739 --> 00:34:40,939

[bob_gatty]: yes

883

00:34:40,974 --> 00:34:42,637

[john_pabon_]: their fix the era of their ways

884

00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:43,030

[bob_gatty]: yeah

885

00:34:42,818 --> 00:34:45,242

[john_pabon_]: but there's there's definitely a massive

886

00:34:45,179 --> 00:34:45,339

[bob_gatty]: yeah

887

00:34:45,282 --> 00:34:46,884

[john_pabon_]: amount of green washing that's happening post

888

00:34:46,754 --> 00:34:46,794

[bob_gatty]: a

889

00:34:46,964 --> 00:34:48,247

[john_pabon_]: covid all of these

890

00:34:48,223 --> 00:34:48,445

[bob_gatty]: okay

891

00:34:48,287 --> 00:34:50,251

[john_pabon_]: companies want to say they're sustainable

892

00:34:50,630 --> 00:34:53,445

[bob_gatty]: so your new book is going a

kind of out these companies

893

00:34:55,258 --> 00:34:58,844

[john_pabon_]: yes which is why a lot of

people are kind of nervous that it's coming

894

00:34:58,944 --> 00:35:01,348

[john_pabon_]: out it's all using factual information

895

00:35:01,352 --> 00:35:01,433

[bob_gatty]: ah

896

00:35:01,468 --> 00:35:04,052

[john_pabon_]: or my own first hand experience so

there's no extrapolation

897

00:35:03,390 --> 00:35:03,591

[bob_gatty]: yeah

898

00:35:04,112 --> 00:35:09,121

[john_pabon_]: there's no hyperbole just keep me out

of legal trouble so there's there's definitely a

899

00:35:09,141 --> 00:35:14,289

[john_pabon_]: bit of calling out of corporations there's

most of the book is going to arm

900

00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:17,014

[john_pabon_]: consumers with the knowledge how to prevent

901

00:35:17,128 --> 00:35:17,170

[bob_gatty]: if

902

00:35:18,076 --> 00:35:22,744

[john_pabon_]: falling victim to green washing but i'm

not stopping at corporations to i'm including governments

903

00:35:23,064 --> 00:35:27,491

[john_pabon_]: i'm including my old boss the u

n i am including i'm definitely having a

904

00:35:27,572 --> 00:35:30,116

[john_pabon_]: section on fafa post world cup so

905

00:35:30,030 --> 00:35:30,371

[bob_gatty]: oh

906

00:35:30,557 --> 00:35:36,006

[john_pabon_]: i'm adding that in to really talk

about how these sort of international organizations

907

00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:36,482

[bob_gatty]: oh

908

00:35:36,126 --> 00:35:41,114

[john_pabon_]: are also green washing and lying to

people and then the third group are particularly

909

00:35:41,154 --> 00:35:46,964

[john_pabon_]: the influence and i read something post

the u n climate conference last week calling

910

00:35:47,044 --> 00:35:51,892

[john_pabon_]: them there's a new term it's climate

narsisists that's what it is so it's people

911

00:35:51,972 --> 00:35:55,077

[john_pabon_]: that show up to these events that

really don't do any work

912

00:35:54,970 --> 00:35:55,132

[bob_gatty]: oh

913

00:35:55,358 --> 00:35:58,523

[john_pabon_]: but they're showing up just to take

the picture and put it on social media

914

00:35:58,984 --> 00:35:59,184

[john_pabon_]: which

915

00:35:59,143 --> 00:35:59,183

[bob_gatty]: hm

916

00:36:00,146 --> 00:36:03,171

[john_pabon_]: it's terrible that we've gotten to the

stage but also as i say that i'm

917

00:36:03,211 --> 00:36:06,498

[john_pabon_]: thinking well it's great that we're finally

getting attention so i don't how i feel

918

00:36:06,558 --> 00:36:07,140

[john_pabon_]: about the whole thing

919

00:36:07,221 --> 00:36:07,382

[bob_gatty]: oh

920

00:36:07,884 --> 00:36:10,333

[john_pabon_]: but there's influences green washing as well

921

00:36:11,471 --> 00:36:14,462

[bob_gatty]: that's really interesting so

922

00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:15,196

[john_pabon_]: so

923

00:36:15,304 --> 00:36:16,367

[bob_gatty]: when will this book come out

924

00:36:17,383 --> 00:36:20,753

[john_pabon_]: so q one next year so probably

around earth day

925

00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,994

[bob_gatty]: oh well that's that's appropriate

926

00:36:26,527 --> 00:36:26,967

[john_pabon_]: i thought so

927

00:36:29,163 --> 00:36:31,666

[bob_gatty]: so you're you are a bit of

a market or aren't you

928

00:36:33,649 --> 00:36:40,446

[john_pabon_]: i try my best yeah

929

00:36:36,443 --> 00:36:41,311

[bob_gatty]: you know i mean i shouldn't say

this but i have a very very dear

930

00:36:41,431 --> 00:36:49,645

[bob_gatty]: friend who is totally totally totally committed

to improving our environment

931

00:36:49,576 --> 00:36:49,657

[john_pabon_]: ah

932

00:36:50,567 --> 00:36:55,535

[bob_gatty]: and she she has a family and

she she is very very

933

00:36:55,787 --> 00:36:55,988

[john_pabon_]: very

934

00:36:55,795 --> 00:37:03,126

[bob_gatty]: committed to recyclingand taking everything to the

land not the land field the recycling center

935

00:37:03,276 --> 00:37:03,619

[john_pabon_]: oh

936

00:37:04,127 --> 00:37:11,691

[bob_gatty]: and one day she was at our

house and and i uh had a cup

937

00:37:11,751 --> 00:37:17,556

[bob_gatty]: of yoga and i finished the cup

of yoga and i tossed the plastic container

938

00:37:17,836 --> 00:37:22,721

[bob_gatty]: in the trash she went and got

it and took it out put in the

939

00:37:22,781 --> 00:37:24,423

[bob_gatty]: recycling ben okay

940

00:37:25,137 --> 00:37:25,218

[john_pabon_]: ah

941

00:37:25,926 --> 00:37:27,068

[bob_gatty]: well she drives a big

942

00:37:26,936 --> 00:37:27,037

[john_pabon_]: she

943

00:37:27,208 --> 00:37:27,448

[bob_gatty]: jeep

944

00:37:28,676 --> 00:37:29,766

[john_pabon_]: yeah

945

00:37:29,590 --> 00:37:30,175

[bob_gatty]: it's green

946

00:37:30,416 --> 00:37:30,879

[john_pabon_]: its great

947

00:37:32,671 --> 00:37:36,862

[bob_gatty]: she picked green for a reason but

it's a big jap

948

00:37:36,766 --> 00:37:36,907

[john_pabon_]: it's

949

00:37:36,983 --> 00:37:44,978

[bob_gatty]: and it guzzles gas and i thought

to myself is that green washing

950

00:37:45,129 --> 00:37:45,333

[john_pabon_]: great

951

00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:47,292

[bob_gatty]: it is

952

00:37:47,287 --> 00:37:47,447

[john_pabon_]: it's

953

00:37:47,413 --> 00:37:47,594

[bob_gatty]: isn't

954

00:37:47,607 --> 00:37:47,727

[john_pabon_]: it's

955

00:37:47,674 --> 00:37:48,580

[bob_gatty]: it kind of

956

00:37:48,549 --> 00:37:50,852

[john_pabon_]: it's definitely it's definitely performative yes

957

00:37:50,751 --> 00:37:50,933

[bob_gatty]: yeah

958

00:37:51,413 --> 00:37:52,816

[john_pabon_]: it's it's absolutely

959

00:37:53,003 --> 00:37:54,080

[bob_gatty]: yeah yeah

960

00:37:53,998 --> 00:37:58,545

[john_pabon_]: and i'm sort of of two minds

of that example because in one sense she

961

00:37:58,886 --> 00:37:59,607

[john_pabon_]: doing a lot

962

00:37:59,439 --> 00:37:59,559

[bob_gatty]: yeah

963

00:37:59,667 --> 00:38:03,133

[john_pabon_]: of work that most people probably aren't

going to like nobody's going to the recyclings

964

00:38:03,453 --> 00:38:04,275

[john_pabon_]: it's very rare

965

00:38:04,571 --> 00:38:04,753

[bob_gatty]: right

966

00:38:04,655 --> 00:38:08,522

[john_pabon_]: for people to go to that level

depth for cycling to pick in their trash

967

00:38:09,003 --> 00:38:09,083

[john_pabon_]: to

968

00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:09,340

[bob_gatty]: yes

969

00:38:09,183 --> 00:38:10,485

[john_pabon_]: fix your mistake so

970

00:38:10,964 --> 00:38:11,004

[bob_gatty]: h

971

00:38:11,428 --> 00:38:13,193

[john_pabon_]: that's great that she's doing that but

972

00:38:13,569 --> 00:38:13,590

[bob_gatty]: m

973

00:38:14,196 --> 00:38:15,798

[john_pabon_]: yeah like you said she's also driving

974

00:38:15,692 --> 00:38:15,794

[bob_gatty]: ah

975

00:38:16,419 --> 00:38:17,661

[john_pabon_]: gas guzzling jeep

976

00:38:17,860 --> 00:38:18,000

[bob_gatty]: yeah

977

00:38:17,902 --> 00:38:18,022

[john_pabon_]: so

978

00:38:18,401 --> 00:38:18,621

[bob_gatty]: that's

979

00:38:18,663 --> 00:38:22,229

[john_pabon_]: to my point earlier of sort of

picking what area of the world you want

980

00:38:22,269 --> 00:38:24,453

[john_pabon_]: to focus on i suppose she's picked

hers

981

00:38:24,606 --> 00:38:24,767

[bob_gatty]: yeah

982

00:38:24,673 --> 00:38:25,655

[john_pabon_]: but that

983

00:38:25,570 --> 00:38:25,752

[bob_gatty]: yeah

984

00:38:25,695 --> 00:38:28,201

[john_pabon_]: doesn't give a pass with doing bad

things everywhere else

985

00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:29,652

[bob_gatty]: yeah that's true

986

00:38:30,036 --> 00:38:30,256

[john_pabon_]: yeah

987

00:38:30,433 --> 00:38:32,897

[bob_gatty]: i don't think she does bad things

when it comes to the

988

00:38:32,885 --> 00:38:33,006

[john_pabon_]: yeah

989

00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:34,099

[bob_gatty]: environment i really don't

990

00:38:34,026 --> 00:38:34,046

[john_pabon_]: m

991

00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:41,271

[bob_gatty]: but it just did seem to me

to be a bit of a conflict i

992

00:38:41,352 --> 00:38:41,632

[bob_gatty]: des

993

00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:41,900

[john_pabon_]: and i think

994

00:38:41,953 --> 00:38:42,133

[bob_gatty]: know

995

00:38:42,081 --> 00:38:46,989

[john_pabon_]: an interesting thing and something that that

i've noticed more and more particularly on social

996

00:38:47,049 --> 00:38:53,339

[john_pabon_]: media is this idea of the the

person in sustainability of the ego warrior whatever

997

00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:53,560

[john_pabon_]: you want

998

00:38:53,511 --> 00:38:53,532

[bob_gatty]: a

999

00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:53,860

[john_pabon_]: to call

1000

00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:54,060

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1001

00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,126

[john_pabon_]: us having to be perfect and re

human we're

1002

00:38:57,112 --> 00:38:57,333

[bob_gatty]: sure

1003

00:38:57,166 --> 00:38:58,147

[john_pabon_]: not perfect right

1004

00:38:58,036 --> 00:38:58,196

[bob_gatty]: right

1005

00:38:58,328 --> 00:38:58,468

[john_pabon_]: so

1006

00:38:59,610 --> 00:38:59,871

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1007

00:38:59,850 --> 00:39:04,198

[john_pabon_]: this this idea that we can't do

why and because we're supposed

1008

00:39:04,014 --> 00:39:04,035

[bob_gatty]: a

1009

00:39:04,238 --> 00:39:06,682

[john_pabon_]: to be in the movement is difficult

for us

1010

00:39:06,721 --> 00:39:07,024

[bob_gatty]: okay

1011

00:39:06,842 --> 00:39:09,867

[john_pabon_]: to sort of come to terms with

because there is a lot of pressure on

1012

00:39:09,927 --> 00:39:11,770

[john_pabon_]: us to be perfect and to show

the right optics

1013

00:39:12,384 --> 00:39:12,424

[bob_gatty]: hm

1014

00:39:12,391 --> 00:39:14,214

[john_pabon_]: so yeah

1015

00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:14,251

[bob_gatty]: i

1016

00:39:14,274 --> 00:39:14,294

[john_pabon_]: i

1017

00:39:14,331 --> 00:39:14,574

[bob_gatty]: suppose

1018

00:39:14,374 --> 00:39:16,384

[john_pabon_]: suppose i'd give you and a bit

of a pass for the jeep

1019

00:39:16,691 --> 00:39:24,648

[bob_gatty]: yeah do you feel like um um

electric vehicles will make a big difference going

1020

00:39:24,728 --> 00:39:25,048

[bob_gatty]: forward

1021

00:39:27,344 --> 00:39:31,430

[john_pabon_]: we've had this conversation for a very

long time now i remember being a kid

1022

00:39:31,511 --> 00:39:35,778

[john_pabon_]: growing up in l a and you

know that's when they said by you know

1023

00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:36,150

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1024

00:39:35,998 --> 00:39:39,624

[john_pabon_]: nineteen eighty nine all cars are going

to be electric and obviously that didn't happen

1025

00:39:40,081 --> 00:39:40,262

[bob_gatty]: right

1026

00:39:40,746 --> 00:39:47,317

[john_pabon_]: so i don't know i would like

to think that electric vehicles will will help

1027

00:39:47,698 --> 00:39:54,589

[john_pabon_]: move things along but the actual execution

and adoption of them is woefully lacking we've

1028

00:39:54,609 --> 00:39:57,434

[john_pabon_]: been talking about this for almost forty

years now so i don't know if it's

1029

00:39:57,654 --> 00:40:02,342

[john_pabon_]: realistic to can sider them to be

a potential savior for all of us but

1030

00:40:02,382 --> 00:40:06,669

[john_pabon_]: you look at markets will go back

to china for example china is one of

1031

00:40:06,729 --> 00:40:09,133

[john_pabon_]: the leaders in the world when it

comes to e v s that's probably why

1032

00:40:09,213 --> 00:40:10,395

[john_pabon_]: testa set up shop in shang

1033

00:40:10,931 --> 00:40:11,033

[bob_gatty]: oh

1034

00:40:11,417 --> 00:40:15,885

[john_pabon_]: ah but the adoption of them is

really being driven by the government and that's

1035

00:40:15,965 --> 00:40:17,688

[john_pabon_]: because they have a command control economy

1036

00:40:17,310 --> 00:40:17,632

[bob_gatty]: oh

1037

00:40:17,868 --> 00:40:20,392

[john_pabon_]: so the government says oh we will

subsidize the cost

1038

00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:20,682

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1039

00:40:20,472 --> 00:40:21,314

[john_pabon_]: of your green vehicle

1040

00:40:21,771 --> 00:40:21,812

[bob_gatty]: m

1041

00:40:22,035 --> 00:40:22,996

[john_pabon_]: and people adopt

1042

00:40:22,959 --> 00:40:22,980

[bob_gatty]: m

1043

00:40:23,036 --> 00:40:23,277

[john_pabon_]: the green

1044

00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:23,555

[bob_gatty]: oh

1045

00:40:23,317 --> 00:40:27,263

[john_pabon_]: vehicle because it's cheaper so without those

sort of control mechanisms i think it's it's

1046

00:40:27,384 --> 00:40:28,866

[john_pabon_]: quite difficult in

1047

00:40:28,691 --> 00:40:28,792

[bob_gatty]: ah

1048

00:40:28,986 --> 00:40:34,295

[john_pabon_]: particularly western democracy s to quickly adopt

sort of the pace of adoption that we

1049

00:40:34,375 --> 00:40:36,150

[john_pabon_]: ned to make impactful change

1050

00:40:36,943 --> 00:40:37,024

[bob_gatty]: all

1051

00:40:37,026 --> 00:40:37,146

[john_pabon_]: don't

1052

00:40:37,044 --> 00:40:37,185

[bob_gatty]: right

1053

00:40:37,186 --> 00:40:41,032

[john_pabon_]: have much time to wait so wasting

another forty years talking about electric vehicles

1054

00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:41,470

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1055

00:40:41,132 --> 00:40:42,855

[john_pabon_]: is probably not the best use of

our time

1056

00:40:43,914 --> 00:40:48,762

[bob_gatty]: yeah i agree but i just over

the last year so i mean there seems

1057

00:40:48,863 --> 00:40:49,484

[bob_gatty]: to be a

1058

00:40:49,536 --> 00:40:51,216

[john_pabon_]: okay

1059

00:40:51,387 --> 00:40:52,128

[bob_gatty]: big movement

1060

00:40:52,187 --> 00:40:52,368

[john_pabon_]: make

1061

00:40:52,829 --> 00:41:00,184

[bob_gatty]: to it's increasing numbers of eves that

are available in the marketplace and i know

1062

00:41:00,345 --> 00:41:15,437

[bob_gatty]: that one of my other guests who

is environmentally focused ah expert um told me

1063

00:41:15,577 --> 00:41:15,898

[bob_gatty]: that he

1064

00:41:15,996 --> 00:41:16,097

[john_pabon_]: oh

1065

00:41:16,038 --> 00:41:21,888

[bob_gatty]: had a conversation with some of the

leaders of general motors and they were talking

1066

00:41:21,988 --> 00:41:28,228

[bob_gatty]: about how their batteries are going to

be substantially

1067

00:41:27,696 --> 00:41:28,017

[john_pabon_]: oh

1068

00:41:28,328 --> 00:41:35,039

[bob_gatty]: improved going forward to give longer range

and and the charging stations

1069

00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,006

[john_pabon_]: charge

1070

00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:38,625

[bob_gatty]: well he'll be able to charge your

vehicle

1071

00:41:39,155 --> 00:41:39,175

[john_pabon_]: a

1072

00:41:39,427 --> 00:41:39,507

[bob_gatty]: in

1073

00:41:39,457 --> 00:41:39,578

[john_pabon_]: ah

1074

00:41:39,607 --> 00:41:41,771

[bob_gatty]: not much longer of a time than

it

1075

00:41:41,766 --> 00:41:42,825

[john_pabon_]: yes

1076

00:41:41,811 --> 00:41:46,018

[bob_gatty]: takes to fill up your tank with

gasoline now if that all happens and they

1077

00:41:46,118 --> 00:41:51,870

[bob_gatty]: put at sea stores where now it's

all gas pumps if they start putting in

1078

00:41:52,401 --> 00:41:52,421

[john_pabon_]: i

1079

00:41:52,532 --> 00:41:58,044

[bob_gatty]: charging stations and half of those locations

won't that spur things along

1080

00:41:59,410 --> 00:42:02,936

[john_pabon_]: absolutely and that's where we come back

to this idea of the business world pushing

1081

00:42:02,996 --> 00:42:03,758

[john_pabon_]: things along so

1082

00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:03,842

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1083

00:42:03,858 --> 00:42:05,981

[john_pabon_]: because it is a business imperative for

them

1084

00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:06,341

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1085

00:42:07,364 --> 00:42:11,290

[john_pabon_]: they see the differentiation if they see

the market niche that they can they can

1086

00:42:11,491 --> 00:42:15,698

[john_pabon_]: go into that's perfect for them i

was in a meeting a few months back

1087

00:42:15,898 --> 00:42:17,621

[john_pabon_]: with b m w and b m

w

1088

00:42:17,799 --> 00:42:18,000

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1089

00:42:17,821 --> 00:42:23,950

[john_pabon_]: has they have made do plan a

strategy that by twenty thirty

1090

00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:27,119

[bob_gatty]: ye

1091

00:42:25,051 --> 00:42:29,779

[john_pabon_]: every single there will at least be

one car in every single line of their

1092

00:42:30,140 --> 00:42:32,083

[john_pabon_]: their portfolio that will be electric

1093

00:42:31,973 --> 00:42:32,075

[bob_gatty]: oh

1094

00:42:32,744 --> 00:42:36,591

[john_pabon_]: so there making a push to do

that as well so it's it's a lot

1095

00:42:36,631 --> 00:42:38,394

[john_pabon_]: of companies pushing this along not

1096

00:42:38,371 --> 00:42:38,514

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1097

00:42:38,434 --> 00:42:40,657

[john_pabon_]: because the government forced them to but

because

1098

00:42:40,702 --> 00:42:40,883

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1099

00:42:40,978 --> 00:42:41,859

[john_pabon_]: they saw the reason

1100

00:42:41,828 --> 00:42:42,009

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1101

00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,021

[john_pabon_]: to i suppose

1102

00:42:43,002 --> 00:42:43,023

[bob_gatty]: m

1103

00:42:43,081 --> 00:42:46,307

[john_pabon_]: the only x factor then is how

much is this going to call because

1104

00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:46,252

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1105

00:42:46,507 --> 00:42:50,053

[john_pabon_]: in those conversations with b m w

the price point was still quite high and

1106

00:42:50,062 --> 00:42:50,223

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1107

00:42:50,594 --> 00:42:54,200

[john_pabon_]: as as a caveat with that that

was b m w singapore they don't control

1108

00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:54,482

[bob_gatty]: oh

1109

00:42:54,621 --> 00:42:57,145

[john_pabon_]: their their price points that's done by

distributors

1110

00:42:56,940 --> 00:42:58,320

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1111

00:42:57,826 --> 00:43:00,171

[john_pabon_]: just to make sure i don't get

any illegal trouble but

1112

00:43:00,131 --> 00:43:00,291

[bob_gatty]: yeah

1113

00:43:00,412 --> 00:43:03,037

[john_pabon_]: the price point was definitely still too

high so that's

1114

00:43:02,957 --> 00:43:03,198

[bob_gatty]: sure

1115

00:43:03,137 --> 00:43:04,841

[john_pabon_]: the that's the x factor

1116

00:43:05,143 --> 00:43:10,981

[bob_gatty]: yeah i was just doing a little

research online the other day and

1117

00:43:11,496 --> 00:43:11,697

[john_pabon_]: yeah

1118

00:43:12,262 --> 00:43:15,106

[bob_gatty]: across the board electric vehicles are just

way way higher

1119

00:43:15,318 --> 00:43:15,379

[john_pabon_]: we

1120

00:43:15,406 --> 00:43:15,586

[bob_gatty]: than

1121

00:43:16,501 --> 00:43:16,584

[john_pabon_]: ah

1122

00:43:16,688 --> 00:43:16,908

[bob_gatty]: than

1123

00:43:17,826 --> 00:43:18,111

[john_pabon_]: oh

1124

00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:22,587

[bob_gatty]: now normal gasoline powered vehicles and

1125

00:43:22,683 --> 00:43:23,185

[john_pabon_]: absolutely

1126

00:43:22,928 --> 00:43:25,251

[bob_gatty]: and and the really nice ones i

mean you know

1127

00:43:25,907 --> 00:43:25,988

[john_pabon_]: no

1128

00:43:26,153 --> 00:43:27,756

[bob_gatty]: um catalacts

1129

00:43:27,585 --> 00:43:27,606

[john_pabon_]: h

1130

00:43:27,936 --> 00:43:35,162

[bob_gatty]: and the and the otis the higher

end ones are way higher and i mean

1131

00:43:35,242 --> 00:43:39,469

[bob_gatty]: i'd love to have some one that's

one of those things but

1132

00:43:41,438 --> 00:43:44,423

[john_pabon_]: i mean you look at the price

of tesla as an example i know that's

1133

00:43:44,703 --> 00:43:45,965

[john_pabon_]: considered a luxury car but

1134

00:43:45,901 --> 00:43:46,022

[bob_gatty]: so

1135

00:43:46,306 --> 00:43:51,094

[john_pabon_]: their eves are it's way too high

of a price point for most people to

1136

00:43:51,426 --> 00:43:51,647

[bob_gatty]: right

1137

00:43:52,256 --> 00:43:53,338

[john_pabon_]: realistically adopt it

1138

00:43:53,620 --> 00:43:53,780

[bob_gatty]: that's

1139

00:43:53,779 --> 00:43:56,224

[john_pabon_]: so going back to the strawberry example

right

1140

00:43:56,284 --> 00:43:56,725

[bob_gatty]: a yeah

1141

00:43:56,585 --> 00:43:59,932

[john_pabon_]: what's in it for me why should

i be adopting and what's the story that's

1142

00:43:59,811 --> 00:44:00,031

[bob_gatty]: right

1143

00:43:59,972 --> 00:44:01,214

[john_pabon_]: going to make me pay that premium

1144

00:44:01,433 --> 00:44:04,299

[bob_gatty]: yeah yeah well i hope that

1145

00:44:04,286 --> 00:44:04,855

[john_pabon_]: well i hope

1146

00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:06,883

[bob_gatty]: by the time that i'm done with

1147

00:44:06,936 --> 00:44:07,076

[john_pabon_]: eh

1148

00:44:08,365 --> 00:44:10,509

[bob_gatty]: my little trick here on earth i

get to own

1149

00:44:10,445 --> 00:44:10,545

[john_pabon_]: eh

1150

00:44:10,609 --> 00:44:11,090

[bob_gatty]: one of those

1151

00:44:11,556 --> 00:44:12,576

[john_pabon_]: oh

1152

00:44:11,731 --> 00:44:12,552

[bob_gatty]: really nice ones

1153

00:44:12,606 --> 00:44:13,007

[john_pabon_]: oh

1154

00:44:16,038 --> 00:44:21,372

[bob_gatty]: i'm looking forward to all right have

we got anything else we need to talk

1155

00:44:21,432 --> 00:44:21,934

[bob_gatty]: about john

1156

00:44:22,930 --> 00:44:27,778

[john_pabon_]: no this is a great conversation thanks

so much particularly conversation around china and green

1157

00:44:27,818 --> 00:44:30,623

[john_pabon_]: washing those two things don't come up

very often in my talk so

1158

00:44:30,954 --> 00:44:31,254

[bob_gatty]: okay

1159

00:44:30,963 --> 00:44:32,407

[john_pabon_]: thanks for that oh

1160

00:44:32,456 --> 00:44:33,258

[bob_gatty]: it's a pleasure i

1161

00:44:33,355 --> 00:44:33,396

[john_pabon_]: ah

1162

00:44:33,418 --> 00:44:38,006

[bob_gatty]: enjoyed talking to you and and learning

something and i hope you guys listening

1163

00:44:37,646 --> 00:44:39,888

[john_pabon_]: hope oh

1164

00:44:40,820 --> 00:44:44,626

[bob_gatty]: i'll learn something too this guy knows

what he's talking about and he's not a

1165

00:44:44,706 --> 00:44:45,027

[bob_gatty]: waco

1166

00:44:45,036 --> 00:44:45,136

[john_pabon_]: it's

1167

00:44:45,187 --> 00:44:45,528

[bob_gatty]: crazy

1168

00:44:45,196 --> 00:44:45,436

[john_pabon_]: not a

1169

00:44:45,608 --> 00:44:52,018

[bob_gatty]: guy and and if you look at

the video when it's done you'll see i

1170

00:44:52,078 --> 00:44:54,282

[bob_gatty]: mean he's a no a looking guy

1171

00:44:55,088 --> 00:44:57,158

[john_pabon_]: i yeah

1172

00:44:56,927 --> 00:45:00,092

[bob_gatty]: and and he knows what he's talking

about so

1173

00:45:00,167 --> 00:45:02,331

[john_pabon_]: i'm not twirling around fire in the

background no

1174

00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:10,816

[bob_gatty]: that's right okay john hang on a

minute hold on i'm gonna stop

1175

00:45:11,468 --> 00:45:13,365

[john_pabon_]: sure

1176

00:45:12,111 --> 00:45:12,272

[bob_gatty]: that