Climate Change Progress, Progress or Paper Tigers--Five Southeastern States

Show Transcript

Climate Change Progress: Southeast

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: Hey guys, this is the fourth of five podcasts exploring with scientist and energy expert Jack Kerfoot which states are making real and timely progress at reducing greenhouse gas emissions and the factors that contribute to their success. Today we'll contrast and compare five different states in the southeast.

[00:00:23] Florida, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia. Each of these states have developed environmental policies that have produced very different results at reducing greenhouse emissions. So stay with us. 

[00:00:39] The type and power potential of renewable energy resources, that is, wind, solar, hydropower, et cetera, varies significantly across our nation.

[00:00:50] States in the southwest have very strong and consistent winds, while states in the southeast have a an abundance of sunny days. Environmental philosophies and policies also vary from state to state. Identifying which states are making real and timely progress at reducing greenhouse gas emissions is best done by comparing states in the same region of the country, which have similar renewable resource potential.

[00:01:20] Our guest expert, Jack Kerfoot, is a scientist, energy expert and author of the book Fueling America, an insider's journey. He began his career in the energy industry in 1976 when America was paralyzed by an oil embargo. He's the principal of JL Kerfoot Energy Services and blogs on his website, our Energy conundrum at jackkerfoot.com, Jack's a strong advocate for renewable energy as the solution for combating climate change.

[00:01:55] Hey Jack. Welcome back to The Lean to the Left Podcast. Bob, 

[00:01:59] Jack Kerfoot: it's always a pleasure to be with you. 

[00:02:02] Bob Gatty: Thank you, Jack. How do we differentiate between states that are making real progress at reducing greenhouse gas emissions versus states that are paper tigers at addressing climate change? 

[00:02:15] Jack Kerfoot: Bob, I like to look at five specific criteria.

[00:02:18] First is renewable energy potential for the state. Second of all is eliminating coal. How is the state done at eliminating coal? Next is environmental standards. Does the state have an environmental standard or pollution standard or even a goal? Fourth, eliminating barriers for the development of new renewable energy projects like wind farms or solar parks.

[00:02:43] And five, resilience of the power grid. So to go back, if we talk about renewable energy potential, we've got to recognize, as you mentioned in your intro, the amount of renewable resource potential for a region varies significantly across our country. Although the southeast does have an abundance of sunny days and solar is very adequate or very excellent renewable energy resource, the overall renewable energy resource potential of the southeastern U. S. is less than the states in the southwest or in the let's say in the southwest from Texas all the way up to Minnesota and North and South Dakota. So we have to recognize and put that as a qualifying factor that states with less renewable energy resources may not have the potential to make that move as quickly or as fully to be renewable energy resource 100 percent than other states, let's say, like Oklahoma or South Dakota or Iowa. Now, eliminating coal, the advantages of eliminating coal are actually three factors. One is from a climate change standpoint, coal generates 40 to 45 percent of more renewable greenhouse gas emissions than natural gas.

[00:04:06] Now, to put that in perspective, the country that is the dominant producer of greenhouse gas emissions in the world is the People's Republic of China. They generate more greenhouse gas emissions than the combination of the United States. Canada, the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan and South Korea, and the reason they have such a large volume has nothing to do with their population.

[00:04:33] It has to do with the fact that they consume more coal, they consume more than 50 to 55 percent of the world's coal every year to generate power. So again, this illustrates the impact of coal from a pollution standpoint, from a greenhouse gas pollution standpoint. Now, another factor is, when you burn coal, you generate what's called coal ash.

[00:04:57] And coal ash contains arsenic, lead, and mercury, which are highly toxic. In 2019, in the U. S., the United States Environmental Protection Agency documented 241 cases of groundwater contamination of coal ash around or near coal power plants. Some were open and operating, some had been closed down for several years.

[00:05:21] So the contamination of the groundwater is very significant, not only for the individual people, but even for crops and for livestock as well. And finally, economics. Even though some people may doubt climate change, I always like to ask them, do you like to save money? The reason I ask them that is to generate electricity from wind and solar is two to three times less than coal or even natural gas today.

[00:05:50] So economically and environmentally. We want to move away from coal as quickly as possible. Fourth item is energy standard. Does the state have a renewable energy standard? Do they have a target? Do they want the utilities to move to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? And if not a standard, do they have a goal?

[00:06:11] Do they have any type of environmental standards that they're holding utilities to? Without those standards, utilities can do whatever they want. Fourth is eliminating barriers. Some states have very complex land access laws or very bureaucratic land access laws relative to gaining permits to, to develop and permit wind farm or a solar project.

[00:06:34] In some of these states, it may take well over 10 years to get just the state permit. The federal permit typically takes 18 to 24 months at most. Now, what we're seeing in some states is well over 10 years. So that slows down the overall process of allowing utilities to make that move from coal and natural gas to wind and solar.

[00:06:58] And finally, it's grid resilience. When we talk about climate change, what we've got to realize what this means is extreme increases in the frequency and the intensity of climate. So we're seeing record high temperatures over large areas like heat domes, Pacific Northwest, which we had a few, two years ago.

[00:07:19] Record low temperatures, 10 degrees Fahrenheit in February in Texas, which almost caused the entire grid to go down. So when you have these extreme temperature swings, or extreme rapid changes in climate change, or temperature changes, or rain, or droughts, what that causes is a strain on the utilities.

[00:07:40] People want to keep cool or they want to keep warm. So what happens is they all go to their thermostat and crank it up or crank it down to cool up or warm up. And as a result, it puts an incredible strain on the grid that was not designed for these type of extreme variations in temperature that we see.

[00:07:58] Updating the grid also enables the power grid to be more easily, to allow the power grid to be more easily to allow tying in of new wind farms and solar parks. You can't just plug them in wherever you want to. It has to be where the power lines are and the main grid can handle this type of energy that we're talking about.

[00:08:19] So those are the main five factors that I look at when we talk about these states. So those, are you ready to jump in? 

[00:08:28] Bob Gatty: Yeah, you know, that's a great overview, Jack. Let's move to the assessments of Florida, Kentucky, North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia. And let's see which states are making real progress at addressing climate change and which ones are really just paper tigers.

[00:08:44] Jack Kerfoot: Will do. The first one we're going to look at is Florida, the sunshine state. It is Florida, first thing to recognize about Florida is people think about solar energy, but actually the state has renewable energy resource potential includes solar, but offshore, offshore wind, onshore wind, and the wind access potential can be very significant.

[00:09:07] Oceana, which is an international offshore energy environmental group, estimates that the offshore wind potential in Florida could generate well over 16 percent of the state's entire electricity from offshore wind, which is very significant . However, Florida is one of only 13 states without any renewable energy standard or renewable energy goal.

[00:09:33] So as I mentioned earlier, the state utilities have no obligation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions or to save the consumers money. In 2010, Florida used coal to generate about 31 percent of their power or electricity. In May of this year, only 3%. So the utilities have been very good at making the move from coal, moving away from coal.

[00:10:00] But primarily what they did was to move from coal to natural gas. So they are a major consumer of natural gas, which is, of course, the fossil fuel. We have to realize that in May of this year, which is the most recent data that I have from the U. S. Environmental sorry, Energy Information, Agency, Florida use fossil fuels, primarily natural gas and coal to generate over 80 percent of their electricity.

[00:10:29] And that was from what we call zero carbon, which means that 12 percent of that was nuclear and only 8 percent of that was from renewable energy, primarily solar. In 2023, we always, we talk about renewable energy. Sometimes I hear people say, Oh, will it cost jobs? Actually, that's not correct at all.

[00:10:51] That is truly fake news. In 2023. Over 19, 000, almost 20, 000 people were employed in renewable energy power plants in the state of Florida, solar and wind primarily. Compare that to over 14, 000, not quite 15, 000, in natural gas power plants. So again, these are the amount of people that maintain and operate the utility scale wind farms and solar parks.

[00:11:18] Compare that to those that maintain and operate the natural gas plants in the state of Florida. The coal plants, there were only... 3500 people, even though it was a very small percentage, and there was about 1300 1400 people employed in nuclear. So what is the dominant employer is renewable energy, and as states increase their amount of renewable energy what that means is more jobs and job security. 

[00:11:45] Now, if we look in summary of Florida, quite candidly, we see they've got no energy standard whatsoever. They've done absolutely nothing as far as utilities for the state to try and develop the offshore wind potential. They have moved from coal, but they've moved primarily from coal to natural gas.

[00:12:04] So, I see very little evidence that the state has done anything whatsoever to try and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, address climate change, and also to try and save residents of Florida money. So the consumer is being penalized and the environment's being penalized as well, which will also cause more cost to the consumer.

[00:12:26] Bob Gatty: Jack, Florida is the sunshine state, right? 

[00:12:29] Jack Kerfoot: It is the sunshine state. That is correct. 

[00:12:32] Bob Gatty: Why in the hell haven't they done anything to take advantage of that? 

[00:12:36] Jack Kerfoot: I think there, there are two factors there. The first factor is that the cost of electricity Is relatively modest. And so people don't want to pay the investment for putting in solar panels on their homes.

[00:12:50] They just feel the economic investments not there. And those that do put it in are primarily perhaps some of the major companies, interestingly enough. For instance, Macy's, Ford, General Motors of course, Apple, Google, FedEx. They all are now basically supporting the development of new renewable energy power plants, particularly solar parks, because for them, they see two advantages.

[00:13:18] Obviously, the environmental advantage, but an economic advantage. They can get off the grid from the state utility and basically sign a 20 year power purchase agreement and pay 2.5 or 3 cents per kilowatt hour to the owner of the utility park or the solar park, and they save money. . And they are making positive statement about the environment.

[00:13:40] In many ways, even like Disney, for instance, Disney supports and has built a major solar project to primarily run one of their major parks in Florida. 

[00:13:51] Bob Gatty: Yeah. Okay politics have anything to do with it. Do you think? 

[00:13:57] Jack Kerfoot: I think that we can simply say in some of the states they want to take a position that says our party doesn't support the idea of renewable energy, although there are a few people in the Republican Party that do recognize climate change is a fact and a reality.

[00:14:15] But there are others that don't, they just want to perhaps gain the support from the coal mining lobby and to get votes from people that may not have time or energy to really understand the impact of climate change and what's happening to all of us today.

[00:14:33] Bob Gatty: You are so gentle. You know that?

[00:14:37] You're really gentle. 

[00:14:38] Jack Kerfoot: It's my christian beliefs. We we all look at everyone and recognize that we should not cast the first stone. So I'm not going to cast that stone, although I will disagree with many of the policies of the governor of the state of florida. 

[00:14:53] Bob Gatty: Okay, let's move to let's move to Kentucky.

[00:14:57] That's the bluegrass state. What are they doing? 

[00:15:00] Jack Kerfoot: And I find it interesting that some of the states that talk about the beauty of the state, like Kentucky, the bluegrass state, unfortunately have less than a stellar legislation or impact relative to the environment and for their state as well. It's again one of the few states that has no renewable energy standard.

[00:15:24] Or even a goal. But they do have solar, they have hydro, they have wind, and they also have biomass, which are basically, in many cases, it's looking at wood or wood products, whether it's harvesting of wood around forest areas to mitigate the risk of forest fires, or recycling wood from major furniture places or places that turn raw wood into timber.

[00:15:50] So again, that's a very effective way to generate the biomass type of potential. So in 2010, Kentucky used coal to generate 93 percent of their electricity. Of course, this is a country, this is a state where coal mining began in 1820, before the Civil War, and it but in 19, sorry, 2021, Kentucky had 101 operating coal mines, and they employed just under 3, 100 people.

[00:16:22] Although it's a state of several million people, it's only a small percentage of actually the people that are working in the coal mines, a small percentage of the employees in the coal mines themselves. In May of this year, utilities in Kentucky used coal, 64%, and natural gas, 27%, to generate Kentucky's electricity, 91 percent and only 9 percent of their electricity was from renewables . Now in 2023. And this is where we get into the discussions, particularly from states with coal mining that was going to cost jobs. But the reality is the single skill set that is the most demand right now today is wind turbine technician.

[00:17:08] And quite candidly, the biggest barrier to development of more and more wind farms and solar parks are qualified technicians to run these projects, a wide range of skills, not only electrical background electricians from that standpoint for the wind turbines, but also running drones and running economic analysis to maximize the power output from these renewable energy projects.

[00:17:33] But in 2023, there were 2, 300 people who were employed in renewable energy power plants in Kentucky, even though it only generates 9 percent of the state's electricity. Coal, which produces 64% Of Kentucky's electricity employed 4, 486 people, and that includes the 3000 plus people in the coal mines. So actually, if you look at the power plants, there's more jobs in renewables than there is in the coal fired power plants.

[00:18:04] We can lump this together to make a little while to take a look at the overall economics. Now, even though I've talked about a compelling argument and we don't see much progress in Kentucky, what the utilities have started to recognize is the economic advantages and also the environmental advantages.

[00:18:24] So Kentucky utilities have announced plans to close a 300 megawatt coal plant in 2023, a 297 megawatt coal plant in 2027 and a 900 megawatt coal fired power plant in 2028. So they're phasing out these coal plants. Typically, power plants have a life expectancy of 30 to 40 years. These coal plants typically have a 30 to 40 year time frame.

[00:18:51] At the end of that time, they have to make a major capital investment to refurbish these to meet environmental standards and also to improve efficiency standards. Now, quite candidly, the utilities are saying this is not money well spent. If we go to the state utility board, they're going to challenge us relative to should we really spend Tens of hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade old technology for a coal plant when we can move to renewable energy that will cost less and have a better impact on our environment.

[00:19:25] Additionally, Kentucky Utilities announced they plan to add Over 1, 000 megawatts of solar, this is utility scale solar, by 2029. So they're clearly, they're making the transition from coal to renewables, which is a very positive state. They haven't done it yet, and as they say, I'm just like the people from Missouri, show me, let's see them make that, and we can give them perhaps a better assessment in a few years.

[00:19:55] But I think what I'd like to point out is that if Kentucky were to increase their amount of renewable energy from 9 percent to 27%, actually the number of people that would be employed in renewable energy in Kentucky would be over 6, 800 people, which would be more than all the people employed today in the coal mines and the coal fired power plants.

[00:20:20] The other fact to realize is that no coal mine lasts forever. And when the coal mine loses economic viability, they close it down and the coal miners lose their job. But as long as the wind blows and the sun shines, those jobs and renewable energy power plants are going to be there forever. So job security is one reason the wind farms and solar parks can recruit people from the coal fired power plants and coal industry to come to work for them, job security, and they're very well paid as well. So if we look at all of what's happened in Kentucky, what we can say is king coal might have been king at one time, but it is losing its luster. But today we look at where Kentucky is today.

[00:21:10] Let's say it's a paper tiger. 

[00:21:12] Bob Gatty: Okay let's take a look at North Carolina Jack and see what's going on there 

[00:21:18] Jack Kerfoot: near to you, Bob. The 1st thing we have to look at about North Carolina is that they have solar. In fact, they're 1 of the more aggressive states and developing solar, offshore wind, hydropower and onshore wind.

[00:21:33] Now, according to Oceana, that same environmental agency, North Carolina has sufficient offshore wind to generate over 100 percent of the state's electricity, actually 110%. So they have very strong, consistent winds. In 2007, they enacted a renewable energy standard. They want to ensure that all utilities are selling at least 12. 5 percent of renewables by 2021, which they were and have achieved. Thank you. In 2019, the Department of Environmental Quality issued the Clean Energy Plan for the state of North Carolina. And this is where they want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions for all utilities by 70 percent by 2030. Which is a very substantial amount of greenhouse gas emissions and a very positive statement.

[00:22:26] And they want the state to be carbon neutral, which means that they basically want zero carbon effect net impact on the environment, by 2050. So again, a very aggressive but realistic plan to reduce greenhouse gas emission with a plan to further reduce that in the longer term by 2050. Now, in 2021, sorry, 2023, in May of this year, North Carolina generated over 56 percent of their electricity from zero carbon, which is from nuclear and also renewables, compared to 44 percent primarily from natural gas and a little bit of coal, about 5%.

[00:23:09] Over 11, 000 people were employed in the renewable energy power plants in North Carolina of this year, 2, 800 in natural gas, 1,600 in coal and 1, 500 in nuclear power plants. So again, we see a state where the dominant employer by far is renewable energy industry. Now, not only does North Carolina have offshore wind, but the utilities are aggressively developing that offshore wind.

[00:23:38] They are now developing the Kitty Hawk North Offshore Wind Farm, which is about 800 megawatts, about 27 miles off of North Carolina Outer Banks and scheduled to come online as we call it being commissioned, which means power going into the grid, by 2026. The legislators have also enacted renewable energy standards to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

[00:24:04] Clearly it moved away from coal and they're moving forward in a very aggressive manner to create jobs and also reduce emissions and to reduce costs for the consumer. So in my mind, North Carolina has made real progress and job well done to the North Carolina.

[00:24:22] Bob Gatty: It really sounds like they are with the goals that they've set the actions that they've actually taken.

[00:24:30] Now, what's going on in Virginia, 

[00:24:32] Jack Kerfoot: Virginia, the old Dominion state. Their renewable energy resources include solar offshore wind, hydro, onshore wind and biomass. Now, Oceana estimates that Virginia could generate 80%, over 80 percent actually, of their state's entire electricity just from offshore wind.

[00:24:54] Now, it's important to recognize that sometimes when you talk about offshore wind projects, certain environmental groups or the fishing industry, will raise concerns because they're not aware of that. So anytime there's an offshore wind project, environmental agencies have to go out, marine agencies to take a look at where the wind farms are, where they negatively impact fishing industry or potentially migration of marine species that may be coming in the offshore area. They have passed all of these without any issues whatsoever. In 2020, Virginia enacted a renewable energy standard, requiring all utilities to sell 100 percent of their electricity from renewables by 2050.

[00:25:39] Coal was first mined in Virginia before the Civil War, 1748, and in fact, before the U. S. was a real, the United States was even a country. Into 2021, 32 coal mines are operating in Virginia. And in 2020, sorry, 2010, Virginia generated about 40 percent of their electricity from coal. But in May of this year, only 1 percent of the state's electricity is generated from coal.

[00:26:09] So they've made a swing from a major coal user to a major cutting back completely. In May of this year, zero carbon generated just about 50 percent of their electricity. Nuclear, about 35 percent and renewables, 15%. And compared to natural gas at 50 percent and 1 percent for coal. So they've made a real transition from coal to renewable energy and also maintaining nuclear, which is zero carbon output as well. In 2023, over 8, 000, almost 500 people were employed in renewables compared to 2, 400 in nuclear and about 1, 800 in natural gas power plants and less than 800 in coal plants in Virginia. So if we look at where they are, Virginia actually had the first offshore wind farm in federal waters.

[00:27:04] State waters typically go out to 8 to 10 miles offshore, and then any type of operation outside of that has to be through the federal government. But they had the first in 2021, the first phase, which is called the Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind Farm, came into operation, and they are currently in the process of expanding that second phase, which will be over 1, 200 megawatts of, sorry, 2, 600 megawatts of offshore wind, which will be commissioned by 2026. So that will be one of the largest, if not the largest offshore wind farm by 2026, providing clean green energy for the state of Virginia. They have a renewable energy standard, they've made progress at moving away from coal, they're developing offshore winds, which is obviously a resource they have an abundance of.

[00:27:58] So from my standpoint, job well done to Virginia. 

[00:28:02] Bob Gatty: That's good news. Now we turn to West Virginia, the Mountain State, Jack. 

[00:28:08] Jack Kerfoot: The Mountain State, yes. And for historians, we know that one time Virginia and West Virginia were one state, but then they divided based on political differences.

[00:28:18] Just around the time of the Civil War. But the Mountain State, they have renewable energy resources, which includes significant hydro, also wind, biomass, and also solar as well. Again, it's one of 13 states that has no renewable energy standard, or even a goal, so utilities have no obligation to reduce greenhouse gases.

[00:28:40] 2010, they use coal to generate 95 percent of the state's electricity. In May of this year, 84%. So coal is still king in West Virginia. Commercial coal mining began in West Virginia in 1810. Today, there are over 135 mines in West Virginia, and they employ more people in the coal industry than any other state.

[00:29:05] Just under 9, 100 people are in coal mines in West Virginia. They only use renewable energy to generate 7 percent of their electricity, which is primarily hydro with a little bit of solar. In 2023, 1, 100 people were employed in renewable energy, even though they only generated 7 percent of the state's electricity. Coal, which generates 93%, employed 10, 800 people, and that's in coal mines, which is the 9, 100 coal mines, and then in the coal fuel power plants.

[00:29:43] Utilities in West Virginia have been very slow to develop renewable energy resources. If you have been to West Virginia and talked to people there, you'll find many towns that used to be coal mining towns that when the mines closed, it basically devastated the community and also contamination from coal ash as well.

[00:30:05] So the legacy of coal in West Virginia is not good. I remember many years ago working there and the contamination in the rivers and the streams was incredible. And also toxic water as well. Now, the legislators have also provided financial incentives for coal fuel power plants in an effort to maintain the jobs for the coal plants, even though if we look at the number of jobs in renewable energy, the solar and hydro, and a little bit of wind that's there in West Virginia, and compare that to the coal fired power plants, they actually generate more employment from the renewable energy power plant. So from my standpoint, legislators are wasting states money and are actually limiting the ability for new jobs, future new jobs for the state of West Virginia. If you were to increase the state's Renewable energy from 7 percent to 70%. I know that's a big jump, but actually, technically, it would be feasible.

[00:31:09] You would actually employ over 11, 000 people in the renewable energy power plants in the wind turbines, the solar parks, hydro, and that would actually be greater than the number of jobs in the coal mines today. Assuming no coal mines are ever closed, which, of course, we know that they are when they're mined out.

[00:31:30] From a long term standpoint, the state is taking a very short term view, and it's really not doing anything for the environment, actually being very negative for the environment, and also costing the taxpayers and people of the state money relative to their utility costs, and long term benefits of secure jobs for the state of West Virginia.

[00:31:54] In my mind, West Virginia is a paper tiger that has done far less than the state like Kentucky, which also has a long history of coal mining.

[00:32:03] Bob Gatty: Jack, what in your view would be the biggest potential for West Virginia for renewable wind or solar? 

[00:32:12] Jack Kerfoot: Actually, a bit of hydro. There are what they call not the big hydro projects, but what they call the mini hydro projects as well.

[00:32:20] And also there are certain areas of West Virginia where the wind is quite strong and the sort of the mountainous areas that would generate very good jobs and very strong hydro power potential. In some parts there's solar. So it'd be a bit of a patchwork. A bit of hydro, a bit of solar, and a bit of wind, depending on where you are in the actual state itself.

[00:32:44] Bob Gatty: But the combination is enough to really provide a significant amount of power, correct? 

[00:32:52] Jack Kerfoot: Absolutely, and more importantly, long term jobs that don't go away.

[00:32:57] Bob Gatty: Okay, Jack I have a couple questions for you about what you've just said, about the job potential. Are the coal industry job skill sets transferable to solar and wind?

[00:33:12] Jack Kerfoot: In the advantage of the coal, the biggest problem that you have to realize, I'm going to have to take a step back here and say in around 1920, there were a million people, a million Americans employed in the coal industry.

[00:33:25] And today there's about 50, 000 in the coal industry, in the coal mines, coal operations. The reason for that job loss is not the drop in the quality of coal, it's automation. Okay, now the advantage of the coal mine is that they've been trained in excellent safety standards, and they know operations in routine, they understand the safety protocol and procedures that is very easily transferable, particularly to wind and also the solar parks as well.

[00:33:56] So the answer is yes, and there's a critical shortage. A friend of mine works for one of the power companies that focus on primarily wind, and his comment is His biggest concern is where are we going to get the people in 2030 to work on our wind farms? He's saying right now we're barely keeping our head above water.

[00:34:17] We lose a couple people, they may retire, and then it will recruit a couple new people that were interested in going to work for renewable energy. So from that standpoint, the shortage is absolutely critical. The last time I looked at the EPA, the number one job shortage In the entire United States, the job that has the highest demand and the fewest number of people is actually a wind turbine technician.

[00:34:42] Bob Gatty: That's incredible. I bet that those jobs pay pretty well too, huh? 

[00:34:45] Jack Kerfoot: They pay very well. Yes, they do, indeed. 

[00:34:48] Bob Gatty: Now, do you know whether any of these states are doing anything to train people from the coal industry to work in solar or wind or hydro? 

[00:34:58] Jack Kerfoot: Typically what it used to be, actually, some states, like New Jersey, some states which have the offshore wind, have actually started state programs.

[00:35:09] Otherwise, you actually see the wind power, wind turbine companies like Vestas, like General Electric develop their own programs. But now there's a new standard of energy program or a wind energy technician program in Wyoming, to a wind turbine in Oregon, to a wind turbine in Texas, wherever they wanted to go with the same standard of training and certification. I'm hopefully will be working with our state legislators to talk about looking at what we can do in the state of Oregon to develop jobs in the wind and solar industry, because as we develop more and more renewable energy in our region, Pacific Northwest, we need to quite candidly start looking at where are those people going to come from.

[00:35:53] The answer is it's more today, more in the wind actual turbine companies or the solar companies will provide the training , but a few states that really understand the importance of the training and development of that workforce, like New Jersey and New York, then you start to see those states fill those vacancies very quickly and they also get the jobs going very quickly and they can get their offshore wind projects up and running because those wind turbines you still need people to maintain them.

[00:36:22] And without those people and resources, then quite candidly, they can't run those wind farms and solar farms. 

[00:36:30] Bob Gatty: Okay. So what can we learn from the energy policies of these five states in the Southeast Jack? 

[00:36:36] Jack Kerfoot: Florida, Kentucky, and West Virginia have neither an energy standard nor any energy goal.

[00:36:42] Which perhaps explains why these states have no real obligation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. and really have done very little at developing the renewable energy resources for the state. Now, the exception could be Kentucky. If they move forward with their program, closing the three or four coal fired power plants over the next 65 to 10 years.

[00:37:07] And also develop these solar projects as they've stated they intend to do. Then you could start to see that we see a state like Kentucky really starting to develop their resources. And when they do, they'll see their power costs go down. And they'll also see better jobs and long term jobs that don't disappear when the coal mines go out or the gas field produces its last molecule of gas.

[00:37:32] So those three I would say are, again, unfortunately, Paper Tigers, although I have hope for Kentucky, when we talk about North Carolina and Virginia, not only do they have strong offshore wind, these states, are really going out of their way to develop these resources, and that to me is very positive.

[00:37:52] So if we think back to when we looked at the Southwest and the Great Plains, we see states like Oklahoma and New Mexico and South Dakota, strong winds and developing those resources. Colorado, strong winds, but a much slower pace than these other states. So , North Carolina and Virginia really have done an excellent job of developing the resources and their economies will benefit from this as well.

[00:38:20] Bob Gatty: But not you can't say the same for the other three states. 

[00:38:26] Jack Kerfoot: No, you will see they will cost the taxpayers and the voters money, and they will also see an impact relative to long term employment and with higher electricity costs, what that means is if you're a company that's looking to come to the U. S. and set up a manufacturing, as many of these companies are particularly in Europe right now, power costs are so high in Europe, they can come to the U. S. And the cost for electricity is about a third or even 20 percent of what they're paying right now. So as a result, you're looking at major manufacturing companies relocating to the U. S. Especially out of Germany. Because they've gone from the cheap gas of Russia to now importing liquefied natural gas and also shipping back to coal just to maintain their power grid. And they're looking elsewhere where they can get technical, quality people, set up an operation, low cost power, and a good tax environment.

[00:39:26] So from that standpoint, why would I go to Florida, Kentucky and West Virginia when I can go to North Carolina and Virginia? 

[00:39:35] Bob Gatty: Very good question. All right, do you have any final thoughts about all of this? 

[00:39:41] Jack Kerfoot: I keep driving home the point that the clock is ticking and that we have to take action immediately.

[00:39:47] And we need to ensure that everyone is well informed when we talk about this, the economic advantages, the environmental advantages, and the climate change advantages of making the move to renewable energy. So I would also remind people we've got one more coming up of the five part series. This will be on the western states of the U. S. from Arizona all the way up to Washington and looking at who are paper tigers and who are making real progress. And I think The viewers will find it very interesting. 

[00:40:19] Bob Gatty: Okay, you guys to check on that episode, just... Go to a podcast dot lean to the left dot net. You'll find a schedule of all of our episodes there, and you can just mark that down.

[00:40:34] Jack Kerfoot: We don't have that one scheduled yet, but we will soon. Jack, thanks very much. It's been great. This has been great again, once again. 

[00:40:44] Thank you very much, Bob. It's always a pleasure to talk about one of my passions, which is reducing greenhouse gas emissions and saving taxpayers money.