Can Baseball Help Bridge the Political Divide?

Show Transcript

What Would Happen if Baseball Died?

[00:00:00] Bob Gatty: For baseball fans, October is a great month. It's the month when the best teams, after a grueling 162 game schedule, are fighting to get into the World Series, which begins October 27th. So today we're talking baseball with author William R. Douglas, who's written a captivating book The death and resurrection of baseball.

[00:00:24] So stay with us. 

[00:00:26] Now, William R. Douglas is a first time novelist. After obtaining a journalism degree in 1980, his career took a turn down the road of information technology. Working for numerous well known companies, including the Boeing Company, where he still works. However, throughout his career, Douglas enjoyed writing.

[00:00:46] No matter if it was technical documentation or websites, newsletters, other material, whatever. He just wanted to write. He lives an hour northwest of Chicago in McHenry, Illinois, with his wife, Lori, and his cat, Peaches. I wonder if your cat Peaches would get along with my dog, Boomer. 

[00:01:07] William R. Douglas: Probably not.

[00:01:08] Bob Gatty: So William, thanks for joining us today on the Lean to the Left podcast. I really do appreciate it. 

[00:01:14] William R. Douglas: Thanks, Bob, for the opportunity to come on your show and have a fun discussion about the book and anything else that comes up. So yeah we're having a good time. 

[00:01:24] Bob Gatty: I think it's going to be cool.

[00:01:26] Now you're a debut author who's written a unique futuristic novel with a heavy dose of sports fiction and a sprinkling of dystopian relevant to our current time. Tell us about your book. 

[00:01:38] William R. Douglas: Sure. Yeah the death and resurrection of baseball. It's a futuristic novel. It takes place in the year 2166.

[00:01:45] And the hero of the book is a 12 year old boy by the name of Joe Scott. And what has happened is that the sport of baseball has been dead for over 100 years. The proverbial nail in the coffin has happened at least in our time, about 40 years in the future, our time, as a result of a tragic Second American Civil War.

[00:02:10] The sport was in decline prior to that fictional war in the future. And then the war comes along, basically seals its fate and fast forward where the book actually starts is like I say in the year 2166 and Joe Scott becomes a conduit to rediscover the lost sport. He finds a relic. At what turns out to be an old abandoned and overgrown ball field.

[00:02:37] That was a part of a battlefield during the war. He doesn't know what it is, but early on, like I say, he finds a relic and it sets him on a quest. And so we follow the adventure of young Joe with him and his Gang of buddies and with some help from adults and he tries to unravel the mystery of this lost game called baseball.

[00:03:01] Bob Gatty: Oh, that sounds fascinating. I want to know why you decided that there would be an American Civil War that you would put in your book that would be key to the plot. 

[00:03:13] William R. Douglas: Why did you do that? 

[00:03:13] Yeah, great question. When I started, Having a thought about writing my first novel, I'm an avid baseball fan and the first ingredient in the story goes back several years ago.

[00:03:28] I'm also a history buff. And a particular interest in the second civil wars and especially in American civil war. But I had read a story, like I say, several years ago about games that kids used to play before the civil war that were extinct. No one knows their names, much less knows how to play them.

[00:03:51] And I thought that's pretty interesting. And I've worked for a long time in the youth baseball realm as a coach. Coaching my son and became aware of the decline in the sports popularity, especially with the youth, gravitating more towards soccer and, of course, video games.

[00:04:13] But you just don't really see a lot of Youth out there playing pickup games of baseball on the local sand lot. You just don't, you just don't see it anymore. And then a couple of books that I read that inspired the storyline too, was when the almond tree blossoms, which was written by David Aikman, he was a former senior foreign correspondent for, I believe time.

[00:04:38] And then William Fortune's novel one second after, which is a story about an EMP attack against America. And when the almond tree blossoms is a also a fictional story about a second civil war. And so I don't know, these things started to just bounce around together and noodle around on my brain and then I had this what if question.

[00:05:04] So all these things started to coalesce in my mind, and I was, I had been challenged to write a book, because everybody kept telling me, you have a knack for writing, why don't you write a book?

[00:05:14] I'm like maybe I will one day. It was on my list, and I'm like, you know what? I think I'm going to, I'm going to tackle a book. So I'm like, all these things came together. My love for the game, these other things that I told you about that I'd read. I'm like okay, let's what if some big sport like baseball were to become extinct?

[00:05:35] How would it become extinct? What external forces could come against it to hasten its demise. And then, how could it. Could it be reborn again at some point after it's been gone? So that kind of are the main ingredients that went into the storyline.

[00:05:55] Bob Gatty: Now, some of the promo material that I read about your book, it says, quote, the death and resurrection of baseball will take you back to the happy days of your youth and your coming of age. The story will throw you move you and make you think long and hard about where the United States of America is currently and where we could be headed.

[00:06:16] Now, can you elaborate on what you're talking about there? 

[00:06:19] William R. Douglas: Sure. The book, the sum total of the book that keeps coming out in reviews is that it's a book of hope. It's a feel good book. It does take a lot of especially the guys that play ball interviews. It does bring back a lot of memories of their youth playing ball, but the strong undercurrent in the book is from the perspective of Joe and his family and his friends and all those people that are depicted in the book, there is a strong memory and undercurrent of what had transpired in the country 100 years earlier when the current divisiveness that we currently are experiencing is amplified You know, from our time 40 years in the future and in the year 2061 and it all just boils over and the end result is quite horrific.

[00:07:20] And so what that has done is that it's forced a reset for the entire country from top to bottom. And the big thing is that, the country has relearned the art of getting along with one another, even with people they don't agree with. And that's something that has rapidly been lost in our current time.

[00:07:46] But again, it is an undercurrent in the story. And it's there on purpose to get the reader to think about where, in fact, we are currently as a country. And it's interesting you're filming this today after what happened yesterday in the House of Representatives, but 

[00:08:03] Bob Gatty: That was incredible.

[00:08:04] The republicans can't even get together now on who's going to be their speaker. And this is happening at a time that is really dangerous because they got to come up with a spending plan that they can't agree on and this government could shut down again. 

[00:08:18] William R. Douglas: I consider myself a conservative, but yeah. I think what happened yesterday was a tragedy, but it's just a microcosm of the overall temperature and health of the body politic in America and also the social fabric in America. And so when the book starts, all that's in the past. And like I said, there's been this huge reset to the good and the book itself from beginning to end is primarily a feel good story clean read about a young boy's rediscovery of a sport that still means a lot to a lot of people. 

[00:08:56] Bob Gatty: Okay. Now, at that same material that I just referred to also says quote baseball has always been a metaphor for America and has always brought Americans together.

[00:09:08] In the death and resurrection of baseball, you'll find his greatest strength hope. How does baseball provide hope. 

[00:09:16] William R. Douglas: If you recall times when you or myself have been in a ballpark or even with a group of people watching a ball game and just enjoying the sport. Yeah, play out from and he's 1 through 9 or you have to use level 1 through 6 or 7 at these level, whatever, but just watching the magic of the game with someone that you know, or love, or even with a stranger.

[00:09:41] Yeah, you can be, on a political spectrum, you can be on total opposites, but you come together. peacefully and enjoy the game, share a beverage or a hot dog or a bowl of chili or whatever. And y'all get along for a time. And that's a powerful metaphor of how things used to be in this country, where we did know how to get along with one another.

[00:10:08] We voted and then if our person didn't win, we let bygones be bygones and you supported whoever was put in office. That's right. You went along and you went along and you went about your business. Yeah. And. In the book 

[00:10:23] Bob Gatty: and when the president got beat, he gracefully stepped aside and supported the new president.

[00:10:31] William R. Douglas: And in the book the hopeful part really comes in just the magic of the innocence of youth. Trying to unravel the mystery of this game that he stumbles upon as a lost game and trying to understand it, try to learn it and try to try to play it and get his friends and family involved.

[00:10:57] And, I just keep hearing it over and over from, like I say, from reviewers that a very powerful thread in the story is one of hope. Good. And so I would, and I would encourage you to. Encourage your listeners to, of course, get a copy and check it out themselves, but that's for them to decide.

[00:11:17] Bob Gatty: Absolutely. Now and I would like you guys who are watching and listening to this thing to, to do the same thing, and in a little while we'll tell you where you can find the book and all that. Now, switching gears just a little bit. Today in 2023, millions of baseball fans have hope as this year's Drive to the World series continues.

[00:11:40] There are interesting storylines, including the juggernaut Atlanta Braves with their incredible pitching and power, the upstart Baltimore Orioles, my team, there's Camden Yards. Winners of 101 regular season games compared to 110 losses two years ago. Perennial playoff participants, like the New York Yankees, who are watching the playoffs on TV.

[00:12:03] I feel so bad for the Yankees. Yeah, 

[00:12:05] William R. Douglas: right?

[00:12:06] Bob Gatty: Hey, let me tell you something. When I was a little kid, Living in, in Northwestern Illinois, not too far from where you live, probably. Huh. I was I was a White Sox fan. I was the first team I ever liked. Minnie Minoso Chico Carresquel, Nellie Fox Walt. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

[00:12:26] Donovan. Those names, right? 

[00:12:27] William R. Douglas: Oh, yeah. Louie Aparicio. 

[00:12:30] Bob Gatty: Louie Aparicio. Absolutely. Nellie Fox was my hero, though, because he was a short guy. He was real tough. Huh. The stories were that he honed his spikes with a file. So that when he slid into second base people would get out of the way for him.

[00:12:46] Today, if a player did that, he'd be thrown out. Where was I going with that? I got all sidetracked here. Anyway the Yankees are watching. What do you think about all this stuff? About the current drive to the world series and have you got a handicap? What do you think? 

[00:13:06] William R. Douglas: Milwaukee is about 90 minutes for me.

[00:13:08] So I'm pulling for the brewers. I'm primarily a White Sox fan. But they've had a horrible year and they're watching. I don't have a problem rooting for the Cubs if the Sox aren't going to make it. Because as I tell all my friends and family play up all so rare Chicago, that the Cubs are going to make it, I'm going to root for them.

[00:13:27] So I was pulling for the Cubs to not go off in Atlanta and Colorado their last week of the season, but it just wasn't meant to be. Cubs are watching the playoffs on TV, just like the Yankees, but. Overall yeah you got to look at Atlanta as a potential World Series opponent on the National League side and American League.

[00:13:51] I don't know. I don't really have a pick yet. It's hard to 

[00:13:55] Bob Gatty: handicap the American league because first of all, the, there's some pretty good teams playing. And and, I'm pulling for the O's, but by the time this airs, who knows whether they'll still be in it or not. And obviously I'm hoping but I would like to see I would to see, of course the Orioles but.

[00:14:17] I don't really care who wins from the national league, except I would like somebody other than the Braves, because I just don't think they can, I think they're just really tough. Holy mackerel. That guy Acuno, what's he doing? 

[00:14:31] William R. Douglas: The guy is unbelievable. 

[00:14:32] Bob Gatty: He's absolutely like a superhero. I know all that power.

[00:14:38] I know talent about all these new changes in the pitch clock and the ghost runner and all that stuff. 

[00:14:44] William R. Douglas: I think the pitch clock is probably a good idea as well as the, that other tweak they did with the batters box and staying in there and then the The repetitive motion syndrome, all these players had with stepping out of the box and undoing the strap on their stupid batting glove after every single pitch was driving me nuts.

[00:15:03] I know, me too. I think some of these rules have been good. I know attendance is up, but is it because of that or is it because we're post COVID and people are not afraid to go out anymore as much as they were a year ago, especially in 21. But I guess time will tell. I do know that, at the macro level, baseball has got some serious challenges, I think, because of what's going on in the youth realm.

[00:15:30] And then also it's just the cost of going to a game. It's impossible for a parent to take, a family of four to a game and not spend a hundred bucks. It's impossible. Oh, absolutely. 

[00:15:41] Bob Gatty: It is. And that, that brings up the crazy contracts they're given these players. Yes. I was watching the game last night and one player Trey Turner, 300 million.

[00:15:55] So I don't know how many years that contract is for, but whatever. Millions and millions of dollars being thrown at these 

[00:16:03] William R. Douglas: people. I know. I know. I know. It's actually perverse when you look at, Okay. The shrinking middle class or, and obviously the the poverty level folks that are struggling paycheck to paycheck.

[00:16:15] And I think you're going to ask him to pay a hundred bucks to bring a family of four to come watch them make 300 million a year. It just seems sick, really. Oh, it does. Absolutely. It does. And in my book one of the listed reasons that the characters talk about for the demise of the game is the financial collapse that happens in the sport. Picturally down, down the road. I give reference to the first billion dollar contract for a baseball player and first billion dollar contract, of course, you're talking about four years in the future. 40 years. In the past from our time, what was the highest salary?

[00:16:56] And now you were hearing, this present time at 300 million years or 300 million contract. 

[00:17:02] Bob Gatty: Wasn't Mickey Mantle the first player ever to get a hundred thousand dollars a year? 

[00:17:08] William R. Douglas: No, I don't recall. I thought it was Babe Ruth, but I'd have to go back and check. And of course taking into account inflation, a hundred grand in their era, or even especially in Babe Ruth's era was a king's ransom for sure. Yeah. What's Google telling you? 

[00:17:29] Bob Gatty: I'm doing it right now. Joe DiMaggio in 1949 signs a contract with the New York Yankees making him the first 100, 000 a year player.. That was Joe DiMaggio, not Mickey Mantle. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:43] William R. Douglas: And just for inflation, what's 100k in 1952 dollars?

[00:17:48] What's 100k in 2023 dollars? That's a good question, huh? I'm sure it's a lot. 

[00:17:55] Bob Gatty: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And Dick Allen was the first to reach 250, 250, 000. Yep. 

[00:18:04] William R. Douglas: And that was in the Phillies or the White Saks. I wonder. 

[00:18:08] Bob Gatty: I don't know. I just, wait a minute. Shoot shoot. Rookie of the Year Award, 1972, he was an all star seven times.

[00:18:15] That doesn't 

[00:18:16] William R. Douglas: say. I think 72 he was with the Whitesox but he came from the Phillies before that. 

[00:18:21] Bob Gatty: Yeah. Yeah. So it's an incredible thing. And I just. I just know that I'm retired now and you asked me earlier, was I going to go to a a playoff game in Baltimore even though it's, eight hours from where I live now.

[00:18:37] But the cost of those tickets is just incredible. 

[00:18:41] William R. Douglas: This is the wild card games. Yeah, those up as you advance. 

[00:18:45] Bob Gatty: Yeah, who knows? Those aren't even in the wild card because they won the division. What they'll be charging for those tickets and they're already sold out. And, speaking of that, I saw that on the Tampa Bay game, Tampa Bay playoff game yesterday.

[00:19:01] It was only 20 some thousand people 

[00:19:03] William R. Douglas: there. I saw that. Yeah, I saw that just before I went online here to connect with you. But yeah, it had 19,000 fans for Game one of the Wild Card game against the Texas Rangers. So That's incredible. And that, Right there there's an illustration that ties into the book too, about the popularity of the game is nothing like what it used to be the problem that you have, especially at the youth level.

[00:19:33] So here's what I see. What's happened at the youth level at baseball is that I don't know where they call them where you grew up as a as a young lad, but we just call them a little league or even, use as a generic term, some places they call it a house league or whatever where it's just all.

[00:19:52] Or a city league, whatever. And you got one, typically one venue and that's where the kids come and they play ball. Those still exist, but a lot of them have faded away. And are no more. And what's become more popular is travel ball. And the parents are driving this and for various reasons, but the issue with travel ball is that let's say you have like in our town and McHenry here in Illinois, we had at one time, we had three different little leagues in the area when I only got one, the two have just vanished, but the travel balls there that's growing in popularity, as I said, but the issue there is that, You have to try out for travel ball and they take the top, pick a number, 11, 12, maybe 15 max players, and that's it.

[00:20:46] And then if you don't make the cut, then you don't play ball. Unless you do have a house league in town. If you don't, then you don't play because I see the kids aren't just. The kids aren't playing pickup games of baseball and because they're so distracted by other things they're not even playing catch in their own backyard, most of them.

[00:21:11] So they're not picking up the skill set. They're not. And with picking up the skill set, you also pick up an interest and a drive to learn more, to pick it up more. And that just becomes a positive snowball for a youngster to, get more and more involved with the love for the game and, and then you have the the old days to you can leave your house at nine in the morning on a Saturday and not come home till dinner time.

[00:21:38] And the parents wouldn't even worry about it, but now that can't happen. So you've got constant supervision. So the parents are always involved. And I wouldn't argue with unfortunately as they should be because of the way that things are right now, but so you get parents pushing kids for like I say, travel ball or soccer.

[00:21:59] That's a big thing, right? I think soccer at the youth level is probably way out past baseball as far as petition participation levels. Yeah. Think about for a kid, take a seven, eight year old kid. What's more fun, to stand at a white plate and have somebody throw a ball that incidentally might hit you in the head?

[00:22:22] Yeah. Or to go on some grassy field and kick a ball around. Unless you cultivate that interest in the game, either through participation with your buddies or gal pals, whatever I can see where the draw for youngsters towards soccer or even basketball. It's more fun for them because it's easier to kick that ball around.

[00:22:46] You take this group of kids, that's a growing number of sports lovers of other sports. And then a smaller number of lovers of baseball, and when you extrapolate that into adulthood, what are you going to get eventually? You're going to get more soccer fans than you're going to get for baseball fans.

[00:23:07] True. Or more basketball fans than baseball fans. Yeah, 

[00:23:11] Bob Gatty: You were talking there about that, it took me back to when I coached my son's little league team. And, my son was horrible. I looked out there one day he was playing right field because that was the only place I could put him because he couldn't catch.

[00:23:28] So I put him in right field. He's standing out there in right field and I looked out there and he's sitting in the grass and he's just picking dandelion hens off the dandelions. 

[00:23:39] William R. Douglas: Yeah, I saw that a few times coaching myself, or sitting in the dirt, yeah, so I went up on the dirt. 

[00:23:46] Bob Gatty: I said, Mike, what the hell are you doing out here?

[00:23:49] William R. Douglas: I'm bored. I hate this. And yeah, we can laugh at it, but then it's but again, take that 40 years from now. What happens 40 years from now if these macro trends continue? And that's part of the That's the, the main pillar of the what if behind the storyline in my book, just to be clear to your listeners and viewers that I'm not here saying to anybody and trying to fool anybody that baseball is going to collapse tomorrow, next week, next year, five years, 10 years, I'm not saying that at all, but 30, 40 years from now, given like I see these macro trends, Is there reason to be concerned?

[00:24:32] And I hear it from other hosts and other people that I talk with. They all agree. There was one host. He was a Detroit boy. He was here when I was a kid, we had eight little leagues in my town. Now there's one, there's just one. And he it resonated with him as well. When I talked about what was the last time you drove past a ball field in a schoolyard and just saw kids playing ball with no adult supervision. He goes, I don't remember seeing it for years, many years, 

[00:25:09] Bob Gatty: i, I think that's a shame that's occurred and I hope that I hope that things get turned around.

[00:25:14] It certainly is it's a great game. It is a great game and I just love it. I did want to ask you one other question that was prompted by the thing about the Second Civil War. I, the name of my podcast is Lean to the Left, so obviously, unlike you, you're a conservative, I'm more on the liberal side, and I am no fan of Donald Trump.

[00:25:36] But I need to ask you this. Some have said that the January 6th invasion of the Capitol by Trump supporters could be the beginning of a Second Civil War. Do you agree with that? 

[00:25:48] William R. Douglas: No. Okay. No. Why not? I think January six was a tragedy on a multitude of levels. Okay. First of all, the people that violated the law, I don't care who they were, right?

[00:26:06] They need to be sought out and prosecuted. And I don't say throw them all in jail, but they need to be found out and prosecuted. Okay. Yeah, you cannot have what happened on that day ever happen again, ever. Absolutely. It just can't happen. Now, do I think, long term, am I concerned for the country?

[00:26:34] I am greatly concerned to be honest with you. In fact, I'm writing my second novel. And the 2nd novel tackles the question of a fictional 2nd civil war it's loosely tied to the baseball novel. And so it's a, I would say a very loosely. Tied prequel because in the baseball novel, it does mention the start of the second civil war on April 12th, 2061, which was a bit of poetic or creative license on my part, because April 12th, 1861 was the start of the first civil war.

[00:27:11] But when you look at the divisions in the country, the name calling, families being torn apart over politics. And and social media has been, in my mind, I think more of a curse than a blessing as far as sowing the seeds of these divisions, I agree with you a hundred percent.

[00:27:33] I think if we're honest with ourself, Bob. I know I have to be honest. We have extremists at the far right of the conservative movement. We have to be honest. I hope that. That people who consider themselves as, traditional Democrats see that there are extremists on the far left of the democratic.

[00:27:57] There certainly are. Absolutely. Yeah. And but here's the thing, right? I knew coming into your show. Okay. If he's leaning to the left he's probably liberal and I was up front with you and say I, I'm conservative, but here we are 2 Americans. Different parts of the country. If we had a list of 500 checkpoints there's a lot we would check off in common and there's some that we wouldn't check off in common, but here we are having a good time talking about baseball, having dialogue, you're not calling me names, I'm not calling you names and you seem like a really likable guy.

[00:28:35] Bob Gatty: I'll tell you one thing. I'll tell you this. You and I would have a hell of a lot of fun watching baseball together. I would 

[00:28:42] William R. Douglas: have a, I would even have a cold beer with you, Bob. 

[00:28:46] Bob Gatty: I'll tell you what, we would have a blast. 

[00:28:49] William R. Douglas: I'm sure we would. We could tell a lot of baseball stories for sure. You know what? 

[00:28:53] Bob Gatty: And if I ever can get back to Chicago on a trip or something, I'm going to give you a shout and maybe we can do 

[00:29:00] William R. Douglas: that.

[00:29:01] It would be great. I'll give you my phone number offline. 

[00:29:04] Bob Gatty: Okay, good. That's it. All right, guys, you guys watching this thing, you have just seen how baseball can bring people together. Now I'm a, I'm liberal. I'm not real crazy liberal. Okay. But I'm way more liberal than this dude that I'm talking to probably.

[00:29:25] But I know the other thing is that he and I were going to sit together at a baseball game, and we're going to share a couple beers and a couple hot dogs, and we are going to watch this baseball game, and we're going to talk baseball, and we're going to have a great 

[00:29:39] William R. Douglas: time. We will definitely have a great time.

[00:29:42] I tell you that. 

[00:29:43] Bob Gatty: And so there is hope, right? Yeah, 

[00:29:45] William R. Douglas: that's right. That's right. Okay. And I wouldn't be a good author unless I kept pointing back to the book and that's It's a major theme in the book major thing. Okay. 

[00:29:56] Bob Gatty: Okay So you guys you've heard about his book. You've heard this guy. He's an interesting guy He knows baseball and he loves baseball and he's a good guy and you got to check out his book i'm gonna i'm, I can't wait to read it and and i'll let you guys know what I think but in the meantime, where can people find this thing?

[00:30:16] William R. Douglas: Yeah the book, The Death and Resurrection of Baseball, you can find it on Amazon. It's in iTunes Apple Books, and it's on Google. Barnes and Noble online, Walmart online, pick your favorite retailer and pick up a copy. If you're so inclined, I would welcome the review of your readers too.

[00:30:37] Okay. We were talking about this offline. I tell your your listeners and viewers that the book just won an award. Full disclosure, I didn't place first, second, or third, but the book was chosen in an international book award called Reader's Favorite as a finalist in the sports fiction genre.

[00:30:56] Excellent. That was nice recognition. 

[00:30:59] Bob Gatty: Congratulations. I bet you were very proud to have that happen. 

[00:31:02] William R. Douglas: Yeah, it was very encouraging to to get that. Very encouraging. So 

[00:31:06] Bob Gatty: now you can say it's an award winning book. 

[00:31:08] William R. Douglas: I guess I can, right? If it's chosen as a finalist, right? You can say it was chosen number one, two or three, but I can say it was a finalist.

[00:31:16] So it was an award winning 

[00:31:17] Bob Gatty: book, right? There you go. Hire me as your publicist. I come cheap. 

[00:31:26] William R. Douglas: Let's leverage those connections you have with the media, buddy. Yeah. So they all retired like you. No, 

[00:31:33] Bob Gatty: I can't even get, anyway. All right. If people want to reach out to you personally, how can they do that? 

[00:31:40] William R. Douglas: Yeah, they can come to my author website, author williamRDouglas. com Okay. You'll see everything out there. Links to the book the book trailer. The book trailer took off like a rocket when it came out. I got over 5, 000 views in a matter of days. Wow, that's cool. And there's all links to all my various podcast appearances. And of course, there'll be one out there to lean to the left.

[00:32:03] Okay, that's good. I

[00:32:04] Bob Gatty: saw you also had one from something called the Patriot podcast or something like that. Yeah, I presume that right wing or right. 

[00:32:13] William R. Douglas: Yeah. See, I'll put yours right next to his, and we'll show. Good. So there's balance in the force. Okay,

[00:32:21] Bob Gatty: this is great. There is a lot. Are we you got anything more you want to say? 

[00:32:28] William R. Douglas: Yeah just touching back around on this whole theme of, the current state of the country in all seriousness I'm very concerned. I've got eight grandkids three kids my own three step kids.

[00:32:42] And I'm really concerned for their future. I really am. I serve as a deacon in our church, and I see how some people are really struggling because I'm involved in a lot of benevolence work trying to help people. And I think stories, you hear stories. From friends and family.

[00:33:01] And then of course, obviously you see the news cycle. It doesn't matter what news outlet you pick, the, the big, the big words division that's what over and over again. And it's really, I think it's unbecoming a country of our long history and what we started as and the ideals that we had.

[00:33:25] And I'll be the first to admit that obviously when the country started out, we started out flawed, obviously. But I recall when Michelangelo first began working in the Sistine Chapel. And it was a plain Jane medieval church with no artwork of any kind. And it took, I don't know, I forget how long he took to, to do all the works that that he performed in that beautiful world heritage site.

[00:33:58] But I was 34 years or something, but when it was all done and it happened in stages where. The original concept, when he walked into the Sistine Chapel, he had this vision of what it could be like, and I think when you look at the history of the country, you have these founding fathers, warts and all, they had a vision of the, what this new country called the United States could look like and again, It started out flawed.

[00:34:28] We all know the big flaw was slavery

[00:34:31] and and the horrible thing that was. But I think there's a lot of the allegory you can look at when you look at the history of the country, our country, how just Michelangelo's work in the Sistine Chapel, as the country has progressed in history, we keep moving and refining and correcting, And making the country, more I think what the vision was of the founding fathers when they had this vision for this country in this new form of government called the Republic, so I think that as we move along in time and we've entered this very perilous time, it's really important for the people that are not on either end of the extreme to be the reasonable ones and to engage in reasonable dialogue.

[00:35:28] To listen and to offer up constructive dialogue that tries to bring both extremes, back towards the center, which historically is where the country has always been anyway. Anytime in American history when the pendulum has gone way too far in one direction politically.

[00:35:51] The voters have showed up and brought the pendulum back towards the center. And I think we're at that moment again, where we need to figure out, as a people Now, where do we want to go in the future with all these things that are been so divisive what needs to be compromised, what, what needs to be scuttled altogether and how do we, again, I use this phrase on just about every podcast, how do we relearn the art of compromise and the art of agreeing to disagree and getting along with those that We don't agree with or may not agree with us.

[00:36:34] And we have to find our way back to that point. I think we can as personally as a person of faith. I think that's going to play a huge part in any such movement like that. But time will tell. Time will tell. 

[00:36:48] Bob Gatty: Thank you, William. It's been a pleasure talking to you, and I particularly appreciate your closing comments.

[00:36:55] William R. Douglas: Yeah. Thank you very much. You bet. Thanks for having me on your show. I was leaning to the right while I was talking. I leaned a little to the left. That's a joke. That's a joke. 

[00:37:04] Bob Gatty: And I was writing the intro for this thing. I was trying to make a connection between lean to the left and baseball.

[00:37:11] Huh. Huh. And the only thing I could think of was there are left handed hitters and left handed pitchers, so they're leaning to the left. And I just ditched that whole bit. 

[00:37:21] William R. Douglas: Babe Ruth was a lefty. There you go. 

[00:37:24] Bob Gatty: But you know what? It doesn't really make any difference because the left and the right we go to baseball games.

[00:37:28] We're going to sit there like we said earlier, and we're going to have a good time and all this other stuff. Yeah, window dressing. When 

[00:37:36] William R. Douglas: do you think you might be in Chicago? I 

[00:37:38] Bob Gatty: don't know. I haven't any idea. I don't have any plans as of now, but you never know. And it's a city I really like. There's some there's some jazz clubs there I like.

[00:37:49] And so it'd be fun to come back. It would be. 

[00:37:52] William R. Douglas: Yeah. When I I'll I'll get you my, my my phone number and address. And then when you're in town. Okay. 

[00:37:59] Bob Gatty: I'll let you know before I 

[00:38:00] William R. Douglas: come stay in a lovely hamlet of McHenry. I stay what you could come stay in a lovely Hamlet of McHenry, the city.

[00:38:08] Oh, there 

[00:38:09] Bob Gatty: you go. Hey, we've just been my wife Jackie sitting here with me. You can't see her because of the baseball. Because of Camden Yards is behind me taking up the whole thing. But my wife, Jackie sitting right here behind me. And how you doing Jackie? I'm good. Thank you. And I just told her we've been invited to this guy's house sometime to I look forward to go watch a baseball game.

[00:38:32] All right. Listen, man. Thank you. 

[00:38:35] William R. Douglas: You bet, Bob. Been a pleasure. And playoffs. I'll get it. I'll get it. I'll get a book off to you. Okay. 

[00:38:40] Bob Gatty: The playoffs coming on in three minutes. So we got to go. 

[00:38:44] William R. Douglas: All right. Have a good one. Take care.